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Moving to Spain: what happens if the UK leaves the EU? - Page 11

wtfamidoinghere

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:38pm

wtfamidoinghere

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Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:38pm

Max wrote on Mon May 29, 2017 12:03pm:

I think for me the debate is over,the people have made their decision,they voted out,we value our democracy so we have to respect the decision of a democratic vote.

It's all too easy to sit in the sun in Spain commenting on everyday stuff that affects people' s lives back in the UK,who feels it knows it,the people voted to extract themselves from the beaurocracy of Brussels,they didn't vote to pick the UK UP and move it away from Europe,whatever model we ado...

...pt will be far far better than the present one,if it means the end of " free" movement then so be it,one million brits didn't move to Poland after 2014 to look for work,when brits settle in Spain or other European countries more than likely they do so because they have taken money with them to buy properties,they don't leave their children in the U.K. and go to Poland or Romania for example and claim child benefit in those countries,when brits go to other European countries they are not automatically pushed forward in the housing queues ahead of people of the host countries,nor are they likely to be given first preference for jobs over people of the host country......enough said.

Fair point Max

Elsaochoa

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:45pm

Posts: 22

3 helpful points

Location: Gran Alacant

Joined: 7 Jul 2016

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:45pm

hi Nick. I wish you all the best in Spain. If you need any help with Spanish (short things 😊) don't hesitate to ask me.

Elsa

Nick59

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:32pm

Nick59

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Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:32pm

Thanks Elsa will keep you in mind 😀

Paul

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:45pm

Paul

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Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:45pm

Brian1042 wrote on Mon May 29, 2017 12:29pm:

I do not understand what your reply has to do with my comments.

I am talking about profit motive and why wages are of course kept to a minimum, which is what you raised in your previous post.

I note that you do not provide any evidence for the statement you made, so now you resort to trying to close the debate.

Again you make unsubstantiated statements. This time about Johnny Foreigner being treated favourably once again, in this case in the queues for housing, benefits or whatever. Where do you get this information? Please share.

FYI, for many years the net outflow of Brits to the EU was more than the net inflow of other EU people to the UK. FYI, every study produced shows that EU people coming to live in the UK have provided net economic benefit. That is they pay more in taxes than they take in benefits. We have Brits in the UK who have never worked. In some cases this is third generation. Are they OK? Should we deport them? Do they have a magic entitlement? 

The OP wanted some views as to what might happen post Brexit. This seems to have been taken by some people as an excuse to re-run the Brexit arguments.

BTW, I am no longer sitting in the sun in Spain, I am back in the UK. I always found the matter of Brexit highly complex and it is not a simple matter of in or out. Regardless, we are leaving. How we leave is still important. How that affects Brits in EU countries is important. That is what the OP asked about.

You state that the debate is over and enough is said. If that is the case, why do you keep commenting?

The fact is only 37% of the electorate voted to leave the EU and reliable data has shown that it was generally the older people who voted to leave. Young people are far more outward looking and far less xenephobic than us older ones, I'm 60 this year and still plan to move to Spain where I've had a property for 10 years, if Brexit means I won't be able to stay I will not blame the Spanish or anyone in Brussles, the blame will lie firmly with Farage, Johnson, The Sun, The Mail and the Express peddling lies and distortions.

We are already feeling the effect here in the UK as our shopping bills have increased massively due to the weak pound and that will get worse when Brexit actually happens and the pound weakens further, then we'll have tariffs to contend with. All we can hope for now is a reduced Tory majority so that they can't push ahead with a hard Brexit, I would like to see us adopt the Norwegian model where we can still benefit from freedom of movement like so many people on this forum have in the past. The future should be all about shared values and co-operation not insularity and isolation.

dinnerout

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:59pm

dinnerout

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Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:59pm

Brilliant post !

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Brian1042

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:13pm

Posts: 100

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Joined: 25 Mar 2016

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:13pm

Paul wrote on Mon May 29, 2017 1:45pm:

The fact is only 37% of the electorate voted to leave the EU and reliable data has shown that it was generally the older people who voted to leave. Young people are far more outward looking and far less xenephobic than us older ones, I'm 60 this year and still plan to move to Spain where I've had...

... a property for 10 years, if Brexit means I won't be able to stay I will not blame the Spanish or anyone in Brussles, the blame will lie firmly with Farage, Johnson, The Sun, The Mail and the Express peddling lies and distortions.

We are already feeling the effect here in the UK as our shopping bills have increased massively due to the weak pound and that will get worse when Brexit actually happens and the pound weakens further, then we'll have tariffs to contend with. All we can hope for now is a reduced Tory majority so that they can't push ahead with a hard Brexit, I would like to see us adopt the Norwegian model where we can still benefit from freedom of movement like so many people on this forum have in the past. The future should be all about shared values and co-operation not insularity and isolation.

> ... the blame will lie firmly with Farage, Johnson, The Sun, The Mail and the Express peddling lies and distortions.

I feel there were lies on both sides. I therefore agree with you to some extent, but anyone who believed the £350 million per week and did not bother to do their own sums was probably already on the leave side anyway, and nothing would have mattered.

My experience was that people (on both sides) decided on gut feel and did not want to look at the arguments in depth about trade, economics, immigration and so on. When I was on Facebook I invited friends to put one (just one) argument against their own view of leave or remain. I just got more about their existing views.

In regard to hard Brexit, we should distinguish between hard negotiation and hard Brexit. I wrote a fairly detailed piece about trade with Gerrmany and the EU as a whole and the net deficit. A reduction in exports to the UK will be at the cost of EU jobs and EU company profits, so the UK does have some bargaining power. If I were negotiating I would start from a very hard position. This seems normal to me - leaves room to change. If you start from where you mean to end you have nowhere to go.

As I pointed out very early in this thread, none of us is any wiser than any other in regard to what will happen. We are all guessing. Some guesses may be better informed than others. Being well-informed does not mean the guesses will be correct :>)

I also noted earlier in this thread that the agreement will be between the EU and the UK not between Spain and the UK. On an anecdotal note, I have met non-EU nationals living in Spain. Aside from the horrendous administration they face that EU nationals do not face, they appear to be treated no differently. We are all foreigners, whether EU or not :>) My experience was very good and being from outside of Spain was not an issue. The fact that I was learning Spanish and trying hard (at the age of 63) seemed to go a long way.

In regard to the OP, I would suggest it might be even more important now to try to learn the language and assimilate. I suggest this because the ease of travel across borders looks likely to change, and whilst many of the various officials speak English, I think it would help any UK person to show they have made some effort at Spanish. This is just a personal aside and a view as to how I think people behave. It is an opinion with nothing other than my experience to support it.

The future should be all about shared values and co-operation not insularity and isolation.

That would be very nice. I think that even so, hard bargaining will still be the norm - even amongst those who share values and co-operate :>) For example, how much should each put into defence, aid and so on. These are issues amongst co-operating countries now.

wtfamidoinghere

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:06pm

wtfamidoinghere

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Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:06pm

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-benefits-idUKKBN18L2TI

Brian1042

Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 12:01pm

Posts: 100

33 helpful points

Location: Santa Pola

Joined: 25 Mar 2016

Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 12:01pm

That is interesting. What is unclear is exactly who might be protected.  If it applies only to those who are residents, as opposed to just having a NIE (or nothing), I doubt it will help many Brits living in Spain. This is anecdotal, as I do not have proper data. Conversations with others suggest to me that many Brits living in Spain to not have resident status, and do not have a Spanish health card, have no proper health insurance and no job (so no social security payments made). Many have not even got a NIE. I am not criticising - just stating what I have heard. 

According to that article it appears some protection of rights may be offered, possibly only to those who have resident status. It implies this protection would occur only if the UK agrees the divorce bill.

Regardless, from experience in Spain, I doubt that many pragmatic Spanish people would be all that excited one way or the other and expect things will carry on just as before for those Brits already living there :>)

TheRightBack

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:27am

Posts: 8

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Location: Villamartin

Joined: 19 Jul 2017

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:27am

As a couple who live in the U.K. and are considering accommodation in Spain in around 2-4 years time it is currently quite unsettling still. More than one year since Brexit was decided there still seems nothing concrete to latch onto that gives me certainty for purchase abroad. The groundswell of opinion here in the U.K. seems to be favouring veering away from a hard Brexit. The crucial decisions should become clearer, or not, when the Tory Party holds its annual conference in Manchester in early October. We planned an inspection visit in November to The Torrevieja and Villamartin area but will probably now see what developements occur in the next few months.

Part of our plan was to rent initially and get to know the area and build up some real knowledge of both prices and areas before we eventually purchased. The diminishing value of Sterling against the Euro makes matters worse for us. If the situation continues then renting abroad is more likely our more permanent favoured option. I'm starting researching the costs on that, especially as it gives us massive variety but is essentially dead money being outlayed. That could be good for some owners in Spain who rent out their property but it might ultimately depress the sales market too. Of course there are more nationalities than just mine and other countries may take up the slack. 

Brian1042

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:07pm

Posts: 100

33 helpful points

Location: Santa Pola

Joined: 25 Mar 2016

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:07pm

It is worth keeping in mind that the situations for the UK and for Spain are very different. The UK is leaving the EU and will make its own rules. Spain is remaining in the EU and there will therefore be no bilateral agreement between Spain and the UK. The agreement will be between the EU and the UK, and the 27 member states of the EU will have to reach a single agreement with the UK on these matters.

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