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Can Anyone decipher the EU 90/180 Day Rule

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 10:27am
23 replies1315 views9 members subscribed
matelotmax

Posts: 61

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Location: Alcoy

Joined: 24 Aug 2019

Hi Everybody ;-)

Yes its me again, whinging about something new - the EU 90/180 Day Rule.

I was told that its fairly simple and logical [a rule....set by the EU...simple and logical.....Oh I did Larf!].

OK, so the basic rules are, within 180 days you can only spend a maximum of 90 days within any [was going to put a capital there to emphasise "any" as there is no "bold" type font - however I have previously been called H'Igonorant and unedumikated so I dekklined ;-) ] EU state.

I was also told that, its simple because the "clock" [for the 180 day period] starts counting down from the 1st day of entry.

What could be more simple?  Hang on a minute.  Why don't I use the EU issued Calculator to work it out exactly.

Question 1 then is has anyone actually been able to make that calculator work - because I couldn't.

Found another calculator [approved by the EU] and yes, 180 days after my first entry I can access the EU again.  But wait a minute, instead of resetting the clock to the full 90 days, it only permits me XX days - exactly the number of days of my first visit.  

My second visit of XX days was within the same 90 day bubble but apparently set off a second clock and its only 180 days after that entry date can I access the EU for a full 90 days.

But surely, if my first visit + 180 only permits the same number of days, say 21, why doesn't the second visit/clock do the same?

And if both visits were within 90 days, did not exceed 90 days and the original clock started ticking on first entry, why  does the clock not reset 180 of the first ever entry to EU.

Confused?  I most certainly am.  My plans for a winter visit to sort out my olive terraces is now shot. Think again Max ;-I

Looking ahead, it appears that the easiest option will be to take a block 90 day visit and then wait 90 days to initiate another 90 day block visit.  How inflexible is that!

Anyone any clues?

Max

James1212

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 11:05am

James1212

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Location: La Zenia

Joined: 27 Apr 2018

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 11:05am

Apologies if I’m missing something, but another way to go is to use a calendar - put in the date you plan to leave Spain on your trip. Count back 180 days. If you don’t exceed 90 days in that time, you are fine for that trip. 

tebo53

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 11:49am

tebo53

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Posts: 4776

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Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 11:49am

Here is the 90/180 rule made simple:

https://newlandchase.com/the-schengen-areas-90-180-day-rule-made-easy/

Steve 

matelotmax

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:22pm

matelotmax

Original Poster

Posts: 61

24 helpful points

Location: Alcoy

Joined: 24 Aug 2019

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:22pm

James1212 wrote on Thu Jun 9, 2022 11:05am:

Apologies if I’m missing something, but another way to go is to use a calendar - put in the date you plan to leave Spain on your trip. Count back 180 days. If you don’t exceed 90 days in that time, you are fine for that trip. 

Hi James

I thought exactly the same.

So I planned two trips.  

The first one for 26 days in May/June- entry date 11th May 2022 - exit 5th June 2022.

The second trip was for 67 days [total of 90 day combined] entry date 12th July 2022 - 13th September 2022.

180 days from 11th May is 6th November.

According to the calculator I can re-enter the EU on the 7th November but only for 26 days [in line with my first visit]. - not the 90 days I expected having the clock reset after 180 days since first entry.

Further, I have to wait until 13th December before I can return to the EU for a full 90 days but only if I do not take up the option of the entry on 7th November.

If I do go out on 7th November for the limited period of 26 days the results are as below:

OK. The earliest date for your next visit: 08-01-2023

If you re-enter the Schengen area on 08-01-2023, you can stay 64 days until 12-03-2023.

If you re-enter the Schengen area on 03-03-2023, you can stay 90 days until 31-05-2023.

7th November to 3rd March is 117 days?!

Does that make sense to you?

Max

Oh and thanks for the response.  The more I get, hopefully the clearer it will become ;-)

James1212

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:35pm

James1212

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Joined: 27 Apr 2018

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:35pm

matelotmax wrote on Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:22pm:

Hi James

I thought exactly the same.

So I planned two trips.  

The first one for 26 days in May/June- entry date 11th May 2022 - exit 5th June 2022.

The second trip was for 67 days [total of 90 day combined] entry date 12th July 2022 - 13th September 2022.

180 days from 11th May is 6th November.

According to the calculator I can re-enter the EU on the 7th November but only for 26 days [in line with my first visit]. - not the 90 days I expected having the clock reset after 180 days since first entry.

Further, I have to wait until 13th December before I can return to the EU for a full 90 days but only if I do not take up the option of the entry on 7th November.

If I do go out on 7th November for the limited period of 26 days the results are as below:

OK. The earliest date for your next visit: 08-01-2023

If you re-enter the Schengen area on 08-01-2023, you can stay 64 days until 12-03-2023.

If you re-enter the Schengen area on 03-03-2023, you can stay 90 days until 31-05-2023.

7th November to 3rd March is 117 days?!

Does that make sense to you?

Max

Oh and thanks for the response.  The more I get, hopefully the clearer it will become ;-)

Hi Max,,

I’m on the road, so can’t fully get my head around the dates- just wondering if you are factoring in the “rolling” 180 days - the clock doesn’t reset giving a new tranche of 90 days - it’s always 90 days in the past 180 from a particular date. I’ve never actually used the calculator that Steve posted, but it’s probably the handiest! 

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Cheryl

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:39pm

Cheryl

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Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:39pm

Have a look at the link Steve gave. It made the penny drop for me.
There is no start or finish of the 180 days, it is a continually moving period of time that moves on a day at a time. It doesn't re-set, just keeps chugging along like a train. As each day passes, one day drops off at the back end. 

When you plan a trip count back 180 days from when you would be going back to the UK at the end of your visit and see how many days within those 180 days that you have been in the Schengen zone. If it is less than 90, you are good to go, if it is more then you will need to shorten that planned trip or delay it.

The calculator does work, believe what it tells you!!

matelotmax

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:44pm

matelotmax

Original Poster

Posts: 61

24 helpful points

Location: Alcoy

Joined: 24 Aug 2019

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:44pm

tebo53 wrote on Thu Jun 9, 2022 11:49am:

Here is the 90/180 rule made simple:

https://newlandchase.com/the-schengen-areas-90-180-day-rule-made-easy/

Steve 

Hi Tebo

For you maybe i is simple.

I must be thick or something, sorry.

The site quotes this example:

Calculating the 90 days is fairly straightforward, but where the most confusion arises is the rolling 180-day period. It’s often easiest to think of this 180-days as a moving block of time that is counted backwards from each day of staying in the Schengen Area. Another example may help illustrate this concept:

  • If a traveller entered Austria on 1 November 2021, the 180-day “block” of time would be calculated backwards from that date (back to 6 May 2021) and then any additional days of stay within the Schengen Area. Each day they stay in the Schengen Area will advance the 180-day timeframe – so the calculation on 2 November 2021 would advance the 180-day block by one day to 7 May 2021.

Still confused? Luckily, the European Commission has an online Short-Stay Calculator that allows users to either assess previous and/or ongoing compliance with the 90/180 rule or to check the maximum length of stay that will be allowed on a particular day in the future. The calculator is free to use and available here.

Calculated backwards?

Date of entry 11/05/22 - so backdated that is 13/11/21But I exited 05/06/22.Second date of entry is 12/07/22 - so do I now back date that and add it to 13/11/21 or do I backdate it 180 days from 12/07/22 - which is 03/01/22.180 days from 03/01/22 is 02/07/22So does that mean that from 02/07/22 I am entitled to a further 90 days in Schengen, which, if so, entry on 12/07/22 would restart the clock on 03/01/22 and advance to 180 days before my exit on 13/09/22 - which is 18/03/22.180 days prior to that is 12th May - which sounds about right because my first entry was 11/05/22 but the calculator say that I cannot re-enter EU until 07/11/22 and then only for 26 days, not 90 as belowOK. The earliest date for your next visit: 07-11-2022

If you re-enter the Schengen area on 07-11-2022, you can stay 26 days until 02-12-2022.

If you re-enter the Schengen area on 13-12-2022, you can stay 90 days until 12-03-2023.

I am sorry Tebo, but i have lost the plot.This is supposed to be simple Yes?  So please explain the above in monosyllables as if I were a simpleton [which has been alleged on more than one occasion, no disrespect to you, but I am still confused.
Thanks
Max

matelotmax

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:46pm

matelotmax

Original Poster

Posts: 61

24 helpful points

Location: Alcoy

Joined: 24 Aug 2019

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:46pm

Cheryl wrote on Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:39pm:

Have a look at the link Steve gave. It made the penny drop for me.
There is no start or finish of the 180 days, it is a continually moving period of time that moves on a day at a time. It doesn't re-set, just keeps chugging along like a train. As each day passes, one day drops off at the back ...

...end. 

When you plan a trip count back 180 days from when you would be going back to the UK at the end of your visit and see how many days within those 180 days that you have been in the Schengen zone. If it is less than 90, you are good to go, if it is more then you will need to shorten that planned trip or delay it.

The calculator does work, believe what it tells you!!

Hello Cheryl

Now that anology has opened my eyes.

Apologies tebo, I will try again.

Thanks to all concerned ;-)

I am a Bear of Very Little Brain ;-)

Max

matelotmax

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:51pm

matelotmax

Original Poster

Posts: 61

24 helpful points

Location: Alcoy

Joined: 24 Aug 2019

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:51pm

matelotmax wrote on Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:46pm:

Hello Cheryl

Now that anology has opened my eyes.

Apologies tebo, I will try again.

Thanks to all concerned ;-)

I am a Bear of Very Little Brain ;-)

Max

Hi Cheryl

I hate to be a pain, but...................................;-)

Date of entry/Control:

Is that the date of initial entry into the EU because the calculator says that:The exit date 05/06/22 is later than the Entry/Control date 11/05/22Calculation of stay is not possibleIs it just me, but surely the exit date will be later than the entry date? No??Max

matelotmax

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 1:01pm

matelotmax

Original Poster

Posts: 61

24 helpful points

Location: Alcoy

Joined: 24 Aug 2019

Posted: Thu Jun 9, 2022 1:01pm

matelotmax wrote on Thu Jun 9, 2022 12:51pm:

Hi Cheryl

I hate to be a pain, but...................................;-)

Date of entry/Control:

Is that the date of initial entry into the EU because the calculator says that:The exit date 05/06/22 is later than the Entry/Control date 11/05/22Calculation of stay is not possibleIs it just me, but surely the exit date will be later than the entry date? No??Max

Hi Cheryl

I think I have it ;-)

The EU is now saying broadly what another calculator is telling me but backwards, if you get my drift.

It does work, you are quite right.  It is confusing having to do things in reverse and accepting that Entry actually means exit.

Thank you and you also Tebo for your assistance ;-)

Max

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