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Brexit Confusion

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:33am
30 replies1197 views10 members subscribed
UHG

Posts: 15

8 helpful points

Location: Playa Flamenca

Joined: 24 Jun 2019

Hi ya, I would like to introduce myself to the forum. I joined about a year ago basically because my husband & I had been aiming to buy something by pure hard savings .... & then along came the EU Referendum & we are now hesitant because there are so many conflicting stories. It has been a dream of mine for over 25 years to leave rip off Britain & have a new life abroad however with the increase in retirement age so now need to wait until 67 it makes us wonder if the renting option would be the best way. The worry is the cost of healthcare if spent  the savings on buying a property as I have read on this forum how healthcare increases by quite abit from the age of 55 so I have then wondered if after Brexit if renting will still be available for brits as I am guessing not. I am also guessing maybe no one fully knows until an agreement is reached. I think I am guessing with no free movement that everything will be more expensive for any brits wishing to make a life in Spain. I must admit I am beginning to feel that for someone to have a dream like this & get so close after years of working hard to achieve it that it feels to me that Brexit could have blown my/our dreams out the water & we will be stuck here in rip off Britain at retirement. We are in a position where we cant come before the brexit deadline because we need income obviously. The original plan was to aim to buy in 2/3 years, use as holiday home for 5 years & then retire early at 60 as should be able to survive on my private pension until receiving the state pension but at this point feel we dont know if it would be paid direct to a Spanish bank account because of brexit or would we lose out by charges. We only rent in the UK & that is because of the dream to leave the UK permanently so once we leave we would no longer have a UK bank account. Any comments on this posting will be gratefully received because all I have been thinking for most of this year is that it looks like our dreams have been shattered due to brexit. I dont mind admitting that the one reason that kept me going to work was the sole aim of working towards living in Spain & seeing that as our permanent home for the rest of our lives. I welcome any feedback anyone has to offer & I apologise if I sound all doom & gloom!

tebo53

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:02am

tebo53

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 4776

4960 helpful points

Location: Benidorm

Joined: 29 May 2018

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:02am

UHG wrote on Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:33am:

Hi ya, I would like to introduce myself to the forum. I joined about a year ago basically because my husband & I had been aiming to buy something by pure hard savings .... & then along came the EU Referendum & we are now hesitant because there are so many conflicting stories. It has b...

...een a dream of mine for over 25 years to leave rip off Britain & have a new life abroad however with the increase in retirement age so now need to wait until 67 it makes us wonder if the renting option would be the best way. The worry is the cost of healthcare if spent  the savings on buying a property as I have read on this forum how healthcare increases by quite abit from the age of 55 so I have then wondered if after Brexit if renting will still be available for brits as I am guessing not. I am also guessing maybe no one fully knows until an agreement is reached. I think I am guessing with no free movement that everything will be more expensive for any brits wishing to make a life in Spain. I must admit I am beginning to feel that for someone to have a dream like this & get so close after years of working hard to achieve it that it feels to me that Brexit could have blown my/our dreams out the water & we will be stuck here in rip off Britain at retirement. We are in a position where we cant come before the brexit deadline because we need income obviously. The original plan was to aim to buy in 2/3 years, use as holiday home for 5 years & then retire early at 60 as should be able to survive on my private pension until receiving the state pension but at this point feel we dont know if it would be paid direct to a Spanish bank account because of brexit or would we lose out by charges. We only rent in the UK & that is because of the dream to leave the UK permanently so once we leave we would no longer have a UK bank account. Any comments on this posting will be gratefully received because all I have been thinking for most of this year is that it looks like our dreams have been shattered due to brexit. I dont mind admitting that the one reason that kept me going to work was the sole aim of working towards living in Spain & seeing that as our permanent home for the rest of our lives. I welcome any feedback anyone has to offer & I apologise if I sound all doom & gloom!

Hi,

This is an overview of some of your points as full explanations will take a good while. We can go into certain points if you want later.........

There should be no reason why you shouldn't be able to rent here in Spain after Brexit if you can meet the financial, healthcare and rental requirements needed to gain residency. You will need to apply for residency within the first 90 days of moving to Spain. 

If you gain residency you will automatically become tax residents after 183 days and be required to pay taxes to the Spanish tax authorities. 

After 1st January 2021 the UK will become a third country nation and for British nationals to live in and gain residency in Spain you will need to prove that you have enough income to satisfy the Spanish government that you won't become a burden on the state. You will need an annual income of about €25,500 for a couple or €32,000 as a lump sum (which has to be maintained in your account for 5 years to gain permanent residency). The region you intend to move to in Spain may have slightly different requirements to other regions and you will need to make enquiries as to their income requirements. Some authorities insist that your income is paid into a Spanish bank account for the previous three months and also showing expenditure payments. 

You will need to take out private healthcare (which covers all pre-existing problems), paid for a full year, for yourself and your partner. After you have lived in Spain legally for a full year you can apply to join the Convenio especial which is a way to join the Spanish healthcare system and be treated to full healthcare as any Spanish national. At the moment it will cost you €60 per person per month for anyone 60 and under then rising to about €125 per month. You will not be able to apply for the S1 healthcare cover (which is paid by the UK government) when you reach retirement age.

If you are thinking of moving here and trying to find employment you will probably need a work Visa and already have an offer of employment as any available work has to be offered firstly to a person who is an EU national which would make it extremely difficult for you. 

For your information, to rent a two bedroom apartment it will cost you around €450 per calendar month plus electricity etc. Food is about the same as the UK. You don't need a tv licence. Eating out and alcohol is generally cheaper than the UK. 

Some private pension companies won't pay into a foreign bank account. 

That's given you a general overview and if you want to know more please ask. There will be other posters along soon with their views and opinions. 

Don't give up hope!!

Steve 

CharlieFarmer

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:47am

CharlieFarmer

Helpful member

Posts: 123

164 helpful points

Location: Catral

Joined: 4 Nov 2020

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:47am

I can understand your feelings and there will be many who share them, some of whom will be heavily invested in their dreamt of life in Spain having already bought a property which now can only be used for a maximum of 90 days out of any 180.

Brexit was sold on 'taking back control' but nobody told the people about the things they would be voting to give up control of!

Steve has given you a fair overview of the position but I think a couple of his points would benefit from expansion.

The sum of €32,000, which could in fact be €37,500 depending on how Spain decides to work it out, does not have to maintained year on year making it effectively dead money. The purpose of it is to show that you can support yourselves and the figure of €32,000 is what they deem necessary to do that for a year.

If you successfully apply for residency then you will be granted an initial one year visa followed by two x two year visas to bring you up to the five years necessary to attain permanent residency. Beyond that you never have to prove anything.

For the initial visa you will need to show either the cash in the bank or a guaranteed income to at least the equivalent (essentially that means lifelong pensions), or a combination of the two amounting to that. For the subsequent two x two year visas you will need to show double that each time or €64,000.

In other words then, and assuming that you had zero guaranteed income and had to have the cash, you would be able to spend from it so long as you were able to put it up again for the next visa.

There are suggestions that things like credit card and bank overdraft available balances might be taken into account but I'd be very sceptical about that.

This being Spain where rules are all too often individually interpreted at the local level I should point out that until borne out in practice the foregoing should be read as theoretical! 

On healthcare Steve is correct about Convenio Especial, which by the way is €157/mth after age 65 not €125, but what he hasn't mentioned is that it does not cover the cost of medicines which in some instances could themselves add up to almost as much again. Spanish nationals and British citizens covered by an S1 pay just 10% or if on an income of under €18,000 nothing.

Unfortunately from the new year the only people retiring to Spain will be the reasonably well off but even for them there will be a kick in teeth as from then UK driving licences become invalid either to drive with or exchange for a Spanish one meaning that one of the first tasks new arrivals will be faced with will be signing up with a Spanish driving school and taking a Spanish! 

Herefordjack

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:00am

Herefordjack

Super helpful member

Posts: 874

1088 helpful points

Location: Pego

Joined: 18 Dec 2017

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:00am

There's no doubt things will get harder for you after Brexit, but if it's your dream, don't give up on it. Life is not a rehearsal, you only get one so live it to the max.

Two things which might be of use to you. First, you mention private health care getting more expensive as you get older. Check out my provider ASSSA. Their fairly unique selling point is that once you're accepted, premiums never rise by more than inflation, if at all. For example, they've just notified me that 2021 premium will be unaltered from this year.

Secondly, you can still retain a UK bank account by providing a UK administrative address. Do you have a family member who could act as your UK 'mailbox'? It's what I've done since I've been here and it works fine. All my pensions and investment dividends go into that account, then I transfer it over here as I need it with Transferwise.

UHG

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:17am

UHG

Original Poster

Posts: 15

8 helpful points

Location: Playa Flamenca

Joined: 24 Jun 2019

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:17am

tebo53 wrote on Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:02am:

Hi,

This is an overview of some of your points as full explanations will take a good while. We can go into certain points if you want later.........

There should be no reason why you shouldn't be able to rent here in Spain after Brexit if you can meet the financial, healthcare and rental requirements needed to gain residency. You will need to apply for residency within the first 90 days of moving to Spain. 

If you gain residency you will automatically become tax residents after 183 days and be required to pay taxes to the Spanish tax authorities. 

After 1st January 2021 the UK will become a third country nation and for British nationals to live in and gain residency in Spain you will need to prove that you have enough income to satisfy the Spanish government that you won't become a burden on the state. You will need an annual income of about €25,500 for a couple or €32,000 as a lump sum (which has to be maintained in your account for 5 years to gain permanent residency). The region you intend to move to in Spain may have slightly different requirements to other regions and you will need to make enquiries as to their income requirements. Some authorities insist that your income is paid into a Spanish bank account for the previous three months and also showing expenditure payments. 

You will need to take out private healthcare (which covers all pre-existing problems), paid for a full year, for yourself and your partner. After you have lived in Spain legally for a full year you can apply to join the Convenio especial which is a way to join the Spanish healthcare system and be treated to full healthcare as any Spanish national. At the moment it will cost you €60 per person per month for anyone 60 and under then rising to about €125 per month. You will not be able to apply for the S1 healthcare cover (which is paid by the UK government) when you reach retirement age.

If you are thinking of moving here and trying to find employment you will probably need a work Visa and already have an offer of employment as any available work has to be offered firstly to a person who is an EU national which would make it extremely difficult for you. 

For your information, to rent a two bedroom apartment it will cost you around €450 per calendar month plus electricity etc. Food is about the same as the UK. You don't need a tv licence. Eating out and alcohol is generally cheaper than the UK. 

Some private pension companies won't pay into a foreign bank account. 

That's given you a general overview and if you want to know more please ask. There will be other posters along soon with their views and opinions. 

Don't give up hope!!

Steve 

Thankyou Steve for the time taken to provide me/us with such valuable information. I will definitely make a note and keep a check for updated help/guidance. You are very kind & I thankyou once again for the time taken.

Kindest regards

Una

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UHG

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:28am

UHG

Original Poster

Posts: 15

8 helpful points

Location: Playa Flamenca

Joined: 24 Jun 2019

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:28am

CharlieFarmer wrote on Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:47am:

I can understand your feelings and there will be many who share them, some of whom will be heavily invested in their dreamt of life in Spain having already bought a property which now can only be used for a maximum of 90 days out of any 180.

Brexit was sold on 'taking back control' but nobody told the people about the things they would be voting to give up control of!...

...

Steve has given you a fair overview of the position but I think a couple of his points would benefit from expansion.

The sum of €32,000, which could in fact be €37,500 depending on how Spain decides to work it out, does not have to maintained year on year making it effectively dead money. The purpose of it is to show that you can support yourselves and the figure of €32,000 is what they deem necessary to do that for a year.

If you successfully apply for residency then you will be granted an initial one year visa followed by two x two year visas to bring you up to the five years necessary to attain permanent residency. Beyond that you never have to prove anything.

For the initial visa you will need to show either the cash in the bank or a guaranteed income to at least the equivalent (essentially that means lifelong pensions), or a combination of the two amounting to that. For the subsequent two x two year visas you will need to show double that each time or €64,000.

In other words then, and assuming that you had zero guaranteed income and had to have the cash, you would be able to spend from it so long as you were able to put it up again for the next visa.

There are suggestions that things like credit card and bank overdraft available balances might be taken into account but I'd be very sceptical about that.

This being Spain where rules are all too often individually interpreted at the local level I should point out that until borne out in practice the foregoing should be read as theoretical! 

On healthcare Steve is correct about Convenio Especial, which by the way is €157/mth after age 65 not €125, but what he hasn't mentioned is that it does not cover the cost of medicines which in some instances could themselves add up to almost as much again. Spanish nationals and British citizens covered by an S1 pay just 10% or if on an income of under €18,000 nothing.

Unfortunately from the new year the only people retiring to Spain will be the reasonably well off but even for them there will be a kick in teeth as from then UK driving licences become invalid either to drive with or exchange for a Spanish one meaning that one of the first tasks new arrivals will be faced with will be signing up with a Spanish driving school and taking a Spanish! 

Hi Charlie, thankyou also for the time taken to provide me with such valuable information. I can see there is alot to take into consideration. As you say, seems like the wealthy would only be able to afford & even then why would they. I would think the spanish economy will suffer without a continuous number of brits continuing to relocate & obviously up to them how they set their rules. It will be a disappointment for many brits I expect. I will follow the updates & wait to see what we are faced with but does sound like we will have to tread carefully to make sure good hard earned savings through going without to aim for a dream do not result in us being fleeced with wasted money. I will keep the dream for now but be sensible & take care. Thanks again for taking the time to reply. The information provided is appreciated & gratefully received.

Kindest regards

Una

UHG

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:36am

UHG

Original Poster

Posts: 15

8 helpful points

Location: Playa Flamenca

Joined: 24 Jun 2019

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:36am

Herefordjack wrote on Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:00am:

There's no doubt things will get harder for you after Brexit, but if it's your dream, don't give up on it. Life is not a rehearsal, you only get one so live it to the max.

Two things which might be of use to you. First, you mention private health care getting more expensive as you get older. Check out my provider ASSSA. Their fairly unique selling point is that once you're accepted, premiums never rise by more than inflation, if at all. For example, they've just no...

...tified me that 2021 premium will be unaltered from this year.

Secondly, you can still retain a UK bank account by providing a UK administrative address. Do you have a family member who could act as your UK 'mailbox'? It's what I've done since I've been here and it works fine. All my pensions and investment dividends go into that account, then I transfer it over here as I need it with Transferwise.

Hi Jack, thankyou to you also for your time allocated to provide me with a response. You actually lifted my spirits over something I have felt so passionate about for so many years. You have added some interesting points about the healthcare provider of which I will take the time to look at. You have also provided helpful information on the bank account situation. I have a daughter in the UK & I feel for sure she would have no problem in letting me use her address -that was a very valuable idea that I had not even thought of so thankyou for planting the seed. I definitely have a few things to take away & record to add to my research file. You have been very helpful. I will continue to read & catch up on any helpful tips & advice for future reference. 

Kindest regards

Una

GCfromVC

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:13pm

GCfromVC

Very helpful member

Posts: 798

520 helpful points

Location: La Marina

Joined: 18 Jan 2018

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:13pm

CharlieFarmer wrote on Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:47am:

I can understand your feelings and there will be many who share them, some of whom will be heavily invested in their dreamt of life in Spain having already bought a property which now can only be used for a maximum of 90 days out of any 180.

Brexit was sold on 'taking back control' but nobody told the people about the things they would be voting to give up control of!...

...

Steve has given you a fair overview of the position but I think a couple of his points would benefit from expansion.

The sum of €32,000, which could in fact be €37,500 depending on how Spain decides to work it out, does not have to maintained year on year making it effectively dead money. The purpose of it is to show that you can support yourselves and the figure of €32,000 is what they deem necessary to do that for a year.

If you successfully apply for residency then you will be granted an initial one year visa followed by two x two year visas to bring you up to the five years necessary to attain permanent residency. Beyond that you never have to prove anything.

For the initial visa you will need to show either the cash in the bank or a guaranteed income to at least the equivalent (essentially that means lifelong pensions), or a combination of the two amounting to that. For the subsequent two x two year visas you will need to show double that each time or €64,000.

In other words then, and assuming that you had zero guaranteed income and had to have the cash, you would be able to spend from it so long as you were able to put it up again for the next visa.

There are suggestions that things like credit card and bank overdraft available balances might be taken into account but I'd be very sceptical about that.

This being Spain where rules are all too often individually interpreted at the local level I should point out that until borne out in practice the foregoing should be read as theoretical! 

On healthcare Steve is correct about Convenio Especial, which by the way is €157/mth after age 65 not €125, but what he hasn't mentioned is that it does not cover the cost of medicines which in some instances could themselves add up to almost as much again. Spanish nationals and British citizens covered by an S1 pay just 10% or if on an income of under €18,000 nothing.

Unfortunately from the new year the only people retiring to Spain will be the reasonably well off but even for them there will be a kick in teeth as from then UK driving licences become invalid either to drive with or exchange for a Spanish one meaning that one of the first tasks new arrivals will be faced with will be signing up with a Spanish driving school and taking a Spanish! 

Hi CharlieFarmer

Just reading your post regarding driving licences.  What is going to happen with people who have Spanish cars and are not residents but have second homes?

Thanks in kind anticipation.

CharlieFarmer

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:41pm

CharlieFarmer

Helpful member

Posts: 123

164 helpful points

Location: Catral

Joined: 4 Nov 2020

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:41pm

For a non resident a UK licence is fine and I was going to reiterate the need for an IDP to accompany it but on reconsulting the UK government website before replying to your question I note that the advice had been updated since I last looked and now they say that you don't need an IDP for Spain however remembering that it's what happens on the ground in Spain that counts and not what the UK government says should or shouldn't, for the price of £5.50 at a post office personally I'd play safe and get one anyway.

https://www.gov.uk/driving-abroad/international-driving-permit

It's said that in the new year if you are stopped in Spain and produce a UK licence the Guardia are going to want to see evidence that you are a legitimate visitor such as your passport, which you should be carrying and which will bear a wet stamp for your date of entry to the Schengen area, and/or your return air/ferry ticket.


Golandrina

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:31pm

Golandrina

Super helpful member

Posts: 1633

1209 helpful points

Location: Almoradí

Joined: 24 Mar 2018

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:31pm

Herefordjack wrote on Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:00am:

There's no doubt things will get harder for you after Brexit, but if it's your dream, don't give up on it. Life is not a rehearsal, you only get one so live it to the max.

Two things which might be of use to you. First, you mention private health care getting more expensive as you get older. Check out my provider ASSSA. Their fairly unique selling point is that once you're accepted, premiums never rise by more than inflation, if at all. For example, they've just no...

...tified me that 2021 premium will be unaltered from this year.

Secondly, you can still retain a UK bank account by providing a UK administrative address. Do you have a family member who could act as your UK 'mailbox'? It's what I've done since I've been here and it works fine. All my pensions and investment dividends go into that account, then I transfer it over here as I need it with Transferwise.

For your information, I have had a UK bank account since moving to Spain 15 years ago without having a U.K. address.   You just cannot open a new U.K. account unless you have a U.K. address.

Also, your State Pension can be paid direct into your Spanish bank account and at a better exchange rate than the usual rate.

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James Spanish School
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Jennifer Cunningham Insurances SL
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