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Politeness and manners - Page 3

Stephanie86

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:13pm

Stephanie86

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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:13pm

Villas wrote on Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:54pm:

Hi tebo53. (as your original OP) I was intrigued with your post ( & have addressed it before).

Manners & Politeness are viewed from which view-point right across the world. I only concentrate on this forum, which is mainly involved with "English" speaking in this country. I do take with a pinch of salt from either sides of Spanish speaking & English speaking overseas....

...

I have (after well over 25% of my adult life) been involved in Spain & my extended family, much longer. 

Ignoring, (in our modern world of forums, internet, Alexa & messaging), concentrate on the differences of both sides. I have (this week & on this forum) both received & witnessed "English" ( as is:spoken language)  "supposed" attitude.

     Many Spanish have asked me, Why do others say eg:"Excuse me, if you wouldn't mind passing me the salt, please if you don´t mind?" when we sitting at table just indicate or say, "salt" & continue the conversation. 

Respect, as earned, is in Spain assumed, (in my experience). It seems, to me, for many moving here into Spain, seem unaccustomed that assumed respect, when, eg: entering a shop/post office.....whatever, most will turn & will wish you a good day & offer any help they can. If we can offer that on eg: forums, we can promote respect, in whichever way we view "manners" & "politeness".

(In my opinion.)

V

I would echo this. When my family first moved here - a Very long time ago, although I subsequently returned to UK for most of my life -  I was very kindly asked to join a family supper by the parents of my then Spanish boyfriend. He would correct and help with my mangling of the Spanish language and general accepted modes of behaviour. At this supper I asked if someone would please pass me the salt - to which the reply was to the effect that in Spain there was no need to surround the request with please/thank you etc because amongst friends and family there was absolutely no need; it was accepted that you would be given that for which you have had asked, why would you not be?

Where I used to live in UK, there was an institution used by firms with international Clients and businesses; it’s purpose was to familiarise employees who were to have dealings abroad with the specific customs of the area to which they were going to avoid inadvertent faux-pas. I understand that also the Police used it on occasion, to help officers understand the mores of different cultures especially f they were moving into an area with high ethnic differences.

tebo53

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:27pm

tebo53

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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:27pm

Stephanie86 wrote on Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:13pm:

I would echo this. When my family first moved here - a Very long time ago, although I subsequently returned to UK for most of my life -  I was very kindly asked to join a family supper by the parents of my then Spanish boyfriend. He would correct and help with my mangling of the Spanish lang...

...uage and general accepted modes of behaviour. At this supper I asked if someone would please pass me the salt - to which the reply was to the effect that in Spain there was no need to surround the request with please/thank you etc because amongst friends and family there was absolutely no need; it was accepted that you would be given that for which you have had asked, why would you not be?

Where I used to live in UK, there was an institution used by firms with international Clients and businesses; it’s purpose was to familiarise employees who were to have dealings abroad with the specific customs of the area to which they were going to avoid inadvertent faux-pas. I understand that also the Police used it on occasion, to help officers understand the mores of different cultures especially f they were moving into an area with high ethnic differences.

With all due respect I do understand your point fully, however this site is used predominantly by English posters who are usually asking about living here legally in Spain or about jobs etc. English people are usually educated in the English way with manners which are sadly lacking ....sometimes.....on this forum hence my original post.

Steve 

GCfromVC

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:39pm

GCfromVC

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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:39pm

I  completely understand where both you and Villas are coming from and the reasoning behind the words. I suppose because most of us, and I say most of us from the UK are brought up when asking for something to add a "please" on the end of it and when received to say "thank you". Its just one of those things.

Each culture to their own but I understand why some people would think that the Spanish in this instance are being rude and I completely agree that they are not, after spending a lot of time in Spain. The majority of Spanish I find are more than helpful.

I've heard of these independent businesses that can advise people about local cultures and how you would be expected to  behave without offending anyone. 

Thanks both.

Stephanie86

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:41pm

Stephanie86

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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:41pm

tebo53 wrote on Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:27pm:

With all due respect I do understand your point fully, however this site is used predominantly by English posters who are usually asking about living here legally in Spain or about jobs etc. English people are usually educated in the English way with manners which are sadly lacking ....sometimes....

.......on this forum hence my original post.

Steve 

Yes,  understand, Steve,  I was just pursuing an interesting train of thought started by Villa’s remarks.

But as far as this forum is concerned I’ve not really noticed much deliberate lack of ‘manners’, I feel it may be more to do with the fact that so many of us communicate quickly via electronic means, conversations are held, business conducted and much of the time, that which used to be referred to as ‘manners’ in the dead tree era simply takes up too much time. Right or wrong, it’s not for me to say.

tebo53

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:44pm

tebo53

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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:44pm

Stephanie86 wrote on Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:41pm:

Yes,  understand, Steve,  I was just pursuing an interesting train of thought started by Villa’s remarks.

But as far as this forum is concerned I’ve not really noticed much deliberate lack of ‘manners’, I feel it may be more to do with the fact that so many of us communicate quickly via electronic means, conversations are held, business conducted and much of the time, that which used to be refe...

...rred to as ‘manners’ in the dead tree era simply takes up too much time. Right or wrong, it’s not for me to say.

Stephanie...I agree to a certain extent but your business scenario doesn't really relate to the way a community style forum operates.

Steve 

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Villas

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:58pm

Villas

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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:58pm

Stephanie86 wrote on Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:13pm:

I would echo this. When my family first moved here - a Very long time ago, although I subsequently returned to UK for most of my life -  I was very kindly asked to join a family supper by the parents of my then Spanish boyfriend. He would correct and help with my mangling of the Spanish lang...

...uage and general accepted modes of behaviour. At this supper I asked if someone would please pass me the salt - to which the reply was to the effect that in Spain there was no need to surround the request with please/thank you etc because amongst friends and family there was absolutely no need; it was accepted that you would be given that for which you have had asked, why would you not be?

Where I used to live in UK, there was an institution used by firms with international Clients and businesses; it’s purpose was to familiarise employees who were to have dealings abroad with the specific customs of the area to which they were going to avoid inadvertent faux-pas. I understand that also the Police used it on occasion, to help officers understand the mores of different cultures especially f they were moving into an area with high ethnic differences.

How posted very eloquently. With link permitted:

 si fueris Rōmae, Rōmānō vīvitō mōre; si fueris alibī, vīvitō sīcut ibī

V

Stan Bartolome

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:46pm

Stan Bartolome

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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:46pm

Stephanie86 wrote on Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:41pm:

Yes,  understand, Steve,  I was just pursuing an interesting train of thought started by Villa’s remarks.

But as far as this forum is concerned I’ve not really noticed much deliberate lack of ‘manners’, I feel it may be more to do with the fact that so many of us communicate quickly via electronic means, conversations are held, business conducted and much of the time, that which used to be refe...

...rred to as ‘manners’ in the dead tree era simply takes up too much time. Right or wrong, it’s not for me to say.

From my own 3 year observation of this site, it appears (generally speaking) to be new contributors who create an account to ask one specific question.

It appears thy get their answer & then disappear again without saying thanks.

It's happened to me a couple of times & I'll admit it really irked me.

(And please don't all shout me but I got the sense on both occasions that it was "older" people who probably aren't that comfortable with modern tech & this manifests in their extreme brevity & reluctance to interact further once they've got the required info.)

GeorgieCanada

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:28pm

Posts: 25

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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:28pm

At the risk of getting slammed :) I don't think it is rude to not say a please or thank you. I wouldn't be offended if I gave someone information and they didn't reply back thanks. Or the "salt" business.

I do read this site to keep in touch with "Spain". Some of the info. is useful, not the arguing stuff though.  I don't have much to contribute as I don't really know anything.

I have a property there that I own outright, but at the moment we have a lot of travel restrictions on us. We have always been considered third party nationals and nearly got booted out one time as we had stayed there too long, luckily we had return tickets!

I would absolutely love to have a little cottage in a small English village, I think that would be lovely to go there in the summer and enjoy all the peace and go to those little pubs.  Maybe one day !

I know this post is totally useless and has nothing to do with the subject other than my first line, but sitting here at my desk having my lunch and nowhere to go, unless I want to go to Walmart, which I don't !

cp

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:45pm

cp

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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:45pm

GeorgieCanada wrote on Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:28pm:

At the risk of getting slammed :) I don't think it is rude to not say a please or thank you. I wouldn't be offended if I gave someone information and they didn't reply back thanks. Or the "salt" business.

I do read this site to keep in touch with "Spain". Some of the info. is useful, not the arguing stuff though.  I don't have much to contribute as I don't really know anything....

...

I have a property there that I own outright, but at the moment we have a lot of travel restrictions on us. We have always been considered third party nationals and nearly got booted out one time as we had stayed there too long, luckily we had return tickets!

I would absolutely love to have a little cottage in a small English village, I think that would be lovely to go there in the summer and enjoy all the peace and go to those little pubs.  Maybe one day !

I know this post is totally useless and has nothing to do with the subject other than my first line, but sitting here at my desk having my lunch and nowhere to go, unless I want to go to Walmart, which I don't !

To be honest I feel the same. I think the “helpful “ button is sufficient thanks.  I find it quite irritating to wade through a multitude of “thank you “‘ posts . I expect to be lambasted for this post   I was last time 😬

GCfromVC

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:05pm

GCfromVC

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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:05pm

cp wrote on Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:45pm:

To be honest I feel the same. I think the “helpful “ button is sufficient thanks.  I find it quite irritating to wade through a multitude of “thank you “‘ posts . I expect to be lambasted for this post   I was last time 😬

Unfortunately, when you hit the like button and as far as I know it doesn't identify who it's from. We are all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours.

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