Irish passport - Page 2

I think that only works if you live in the EU, not a 3rd world country, ie. GB. As their rules would apply.

Yes, I know exactly what you are taking about, I wouldn't have wasted your time and mine by sending something irrelevant. I am dual nationality British and Irish. I am simply trying to help you. . Anyway good luck!

https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/uk-nationals-spouses-of-irish-citizens-who-are-not-entitled-to-irish-citizenship-article-10-residen/

UK Nationals Spouses of Irish Citizens Who are not Entitled to Irish Citizenship-Article 10 Residency?2019August27thPosted in: Brexit, Information Topic, News Articles, Residency,
Author: Myra Cecilia Azzopardi
Tags: article 20, Brexit, non EU partners., non EU spouses, residency, residency article 10

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Myra Azzopardi senior adviser for the Citizens Advice Bureau in Spain recently flew to Ireland to meet with the staff of the Citizens Information in Bantry, Cork. The meeting took place on August 16 2019 where Myra was the guest of Sylvia Adamska Information Officer and Martina Conroy.

Those present discussed the circumstances in relation to residency status post Brexit of the numerous UK nationals married or partnered with Irish nationals and residing in Spain. The discussion also included those couples from Ireland who have intentions to relocate to Spain in the future. For the latter the Citizens Information officers will advice those UK/Irish Nationals in a marriage, civil relationship or de facto partnerships of their rights in applying for residency with a non-EU spouse (includes UK nationals who lose their EU citizen status).

Some Irish citizens whose partners are UK Nationals and together are residing in Spain are aware that taking up Irish nationality is not an option For their partners. There is a second option for these UK nationals who are married or in a de facto partnership with Irish nationals that they may not be aware of, this is their rights under EU Directive to retain freedom of movement that does not involve changing nationality.
Sylvia mentioned that there is a backlog for citizenship applications. In one particular case an application was still pending eighteen months after the petition was submitted. These applications are normally processed within six months.

It is important to note that for those in a de facto partnership do not have the right under Irish citizenship law to apply for Irish nationality. There are also those partners who de not meet the residency requirements in Ireland which one supposes is the majority of these couples who are residents of Spain.
Those in the above situation would be best applying for or updating their residency status under Article 10 of the European Directive on the freedom of movement. Unfortunately for those UK Nationals and spouses of EU (including Irish Citizens) already residing legally in Spain and holders of a residency certificate, the Spanish governments recent Royal Decree on the updating of these certificates for a foreigners card (TIE), have failed to include or even mention these citizens rights.

The information can be found in a previous explanatory fact sheet posted earlier this month.
Before proceeding to advise those citizens affected, it would be advisable to follow the information on the rights on application for Irish nationality by marriage.

The information below is lifted from the website of the Citizens Information Ireland.

“If you are the spouse or civil partner of an Irish citizen who is applying for Irish citizenship, you must meet the following conditions:

• You must be married to or in a recognised civil partnership* with the Irish citizen for at least 3 years
• You must have had a period of 1 year’s continuous reckonable residence – see below – in the island of Ireland immediately before the date of your application, and during the 4 years preceding that, have had a total reckonable residence in the island of Ireland amounting to 2 years. Altogether you must have a total of 3 years reckonable residence out of the last 5 years.
• Your marriage or civil partnership must be recognised as valid under Irish law
• You and your spouse or civil partner must be living together as a married couple or civil partners
• You must be of full age, good character and intend to continue to live on the island of Ireland
• You must have made a declaration of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State.

*Foreign relationships registered outside Ireland were only recognised by the State on 13 January 2011 when the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 came into force. However, under the Marriage Act 2015, it is now possible for same-sex couples to become legally married and you can no longer register a civil partnership in Ireland. Partnerships registered abroad after 16 November 2015 are not recognised as civil partnerships in Ireland.
Reckonable residence

Certain periods of residence do not count for the purpose of reckonable residence, for example, periods when you did not have permission to remain in Ireland, or you had permission that was for study purposes or while having a claim for asylum examined. You can use the online residency calculator on the INIS website to check if you meet the naturalisation residency conditions”.

It becomes obvious that most of these couples already residing in Spain do not meet the requirements. Below is an extract of information provided for UK nationals married to EU citizens. We reiterate the importance of knowing your rights when officials may still not have been provided with any guidelines for your particular cases after the UK exits the Union.

“The Spanish no deal contingency plans make it clear that non-EU family members of UK Nationals also need to update their cards but does not mention another scenario, ‘UK Nationals who are spouses of EU citizens’. We wish to advise all these citizens that if their circumstances (not included in the royal decree) is not legally formalised as an amendment in the existing or new law, that they should be aware that when making an application for a TIE, that the residence card should be issued under Article 10. This would result in that UK nationals entitlement to “freedom of movements rights” are reserved“.

James - accepted but they are member of the Parliament, and I should have given them there correct designation.

Ray

This is the problem, it is not set down and you need both people there at the same time

Through me, my wife has the right to come into the EU to join me, and leave without me, family matters can separate us on occasions.

I have had it confirmed that we do have the rights by both m [email protected] and legal researchers in the Parliament via an MEP, it is nothing to do with your country of residence, but I am asking them how does my wife use this right in the situations I have outlined to but the EU and the Irish authorities.

The scenarios in our case I have outlined are :-  

1.  We want to travel (tour) in Europe with my wife, over 90 days, but no more than 90 days in any country, taking several months.

2.  My wife needs to be able to leave and return if required to attend to family and legal matters without me.

3.  At other times we may take a long-term rental in Spain Portugal or Italy never spending more than 90 days at a time in a country or spending the time that would make us tax resident.

4.  We may visit the Schengen Area of the EU for more than 90 days in 180 days, in separate trips never staying more than 90 days in any country.

I would like to understand how in all of these situation the rights are observed/preserved, and this apples to 1000's of people

If you  one of them put an email to a TD or MEP in the ROI, so they can also try to find out what is needed.

Thanks John123456 it will help some but we are not and will not be resident in Spain.

We want the flexibility we had before without any border problems created by Brexit

Our practice was to spend just under 90 days between January and the end of March.

the a few weeks in May/June, returning for up to about 6 weeks in September/October.

I am perusing via several channels and things look positive, but of course the more the merrier and greater chance of success.

I lot of posters have asked Questions and made statements on the subject which I why I started to check firstly for us, and hoped others may come on the trip to make their border crossing easier, it is the day you have real problems when you realise there should be officially sanction documentation to aviod problems.

To date I have had it confirmed under treaty rights established partners of EU citizens

1. Should not have their passports stamped
2. If traveling together go through the 'All passports' gate
3. Are not subject to the 90/180 day rule
   

This applies to all EU citizens partners, where they live outside the EU, , my cousin live in the USA and the same applies to him with an Irish passport so any EU Passport

I have entered the schengen zone (France) on 2 occasions recently via Caen and Calais travelling with my Irish spouse my passport has been stamped on both occasions despite my protestations  but the officer at Caen said although it was stamped I was not subject to the 90/180 rule I could stay in France for up to 90 days then leave for one day and then return 

I would really like to know how one obtains an EU family member card 

Here's a couple of links you might find helpful. However, perhaps you should speak with a lawyer with knowledge in this field.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/non-eu-family-members-residence-card/index_en.htm 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residence_card_of_a_family_member_of_a_Union_citizen 

I suggest your wife contacts a  TD, member of the parliament saying her rights have been infringed and asking what the Irish government are going to do about it.

The problem with what the border guard said is that it is on the way out that the problem of overstaying starts.

Being Irish with an Irish passport, we have the right of freedom of travel, we are not EU residents, we can stay up to 90 days in any EU country without registering, and the border guard is right in that you can return the next day and start another 90 day period, so if you travel from UK to Spain, via France and return you can spend a full 90 days in Spain, your transit time through France will normally not be anywhere near 90 days each time.

The problem is getting the rights respected.

John 

We are not residents in the EU, but are EU citizens so the links do not provide information in our situations.

Although my wife is Irish she lives in the U.K. so does not have a vote  in Ireland so no Irish mp (TD) will not assist ! 

Yes, I understand that and that's the reason why I suggested it may be better to speak with an immigration lawyer in your normal country of residence. The advice you will receive here, on most occasions, will not be from experts. 

The following link is to 'Your Europe Advice' an official EU advice and guidance service operated by the EU. I have used them in the past and have found them very helpful. 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/advice/index_en.htm