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90/180 rule

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:36am
24 replies725 views8 members subscribed
Christie

Posts: 19

Location: Denia

Joined: 25 Feb 2020

When you become a resident are you still restricted by the 90/180 rule?

Can you stay longer than 90 days in another EU country?

Or can you come back for say 2 days to Spain then have another 90 days in another EU country?

I asked this in a French expat site and as far as I can see there is no difinitive answer!

Also to muddy the waters if your spouse has a EU passport can you stay longer with them?

Peter3473

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:30pm

Peter3473

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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:30pm

I am on the understanding that residency gained in Spain is what it is, you are not classed as a Spanish citizen, although after 10 years you can make a application to become a citizen of Spain and gain a Spanish passport? Then if there is Euro zone you can visit for a maximum of 3 months in any 180 days in each Euro zone country, so roughly speaking 3 months in France, 3 months in Germany, then return to France for another 3 months then back to Germany,  you obviously can visit other Euro zone countries. As for just being a Spanish resident, you still hold a UK passport and you will be only allowed to visit any/all Euro zone countries 90 days in 180 per visit, as any one who holds a 3rd nation country passport including the UK from the 31st December 2020 the passport will be scanned on arrival in any Euro zone country and scanned on departure, big brother will be watching those who break the rules. But having residency in Spain allows you to stay here full time as it’s your residential home country. But visiting other Euro zone country is limited to a maximum of 180 days in a year at present as the same rules still apply for UK passport holders.

tebo53

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:12pm

tebo53

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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:12pm

Christie wrote on Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:36am:

When you become a resident are you still restricted by the 90/180 rule?

Can you stay longer than 90 days in another EU country?

Or can you come back for say 2 days to Spain then have another 90 days in another EU country?

I asked this in a French expat site and as far as I can see there is no difinitive answer!

Also to muddy the waters if your spouse has a EU passport can you stay longer with them?

If you are lucky enough to gain residency in Spain you are only allowed to leave the country for a total of 6 months each year (up to the first 5 years) before you lose the right to residency. If you lose that right you will have to start from scratch again providing proof of income ( which after 1st January 2021 will be about four time the income in 2020) healthcare etc, etc.

Keep a tight check on your movements. 

Steve 

Kimmy11

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:48pm

Kimmy11

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Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:48pm

Hi Christie,

"When you become a resident are you still restricted by the 90/180 rule?" 

Not in Spain.  When you become a Spanish resident (not the same as citizenship), for the first 5 years, your residency is 'temporary' - you have to live in Spain for at least 183 days per year; but in those first 5 years, you cannot be absent for more than a total of 12 months.  Once you have lived permanently in Spain for 5 years, your residency is 'permanent' and you cannot be outside of Spain for more than 12 months continuously, nor more than 30 months total during the previous 5 years.

"Can you stay longer than 90 days in another EU country?"

As a Spanish resident, yes, because your time spent in Spain would not count towards the Schengen rule of 90 days in a rolling 180 days, but as a UK citizen you would still be subject to the residency rules I've described in the answer above.  (If you do not have residency in Spain or any other EU country, you would not be able to spend more than 90 days in another EU country.)

"Or can you come back for say 2 days to Spain then have another 90 days in another EU country?"

No, while your time in Spain doesn't count against the 90 in 180 Schengen rules, if you've spent 90 days in another Schengen country, you would still have to return to Spain for 90 days before you could enter the Schegen travel zone again.  Also, as a Spanish resident (temporary or permanent residency), you can leave Spain for more than 90 days (to return, for example, to the UK or Ireland, which are not Schengen zone countries), but subject to the maximum absences described in my first answer regarding the need to comply with the terms of your Spanish residency.

"Also to muddy the waters if your spouse has a EU passport can you stay longer with them?"

Without residency, no.  Before the end of this year, you can apply for residency in Spain in your own right and retain your rights as an EU citizen.  From 1 January 2021, it will probably be easier for you to apply as a family member of your EU spouse, rather than in your own right as a TCN (Third Country National).  Unfortunately, until we know for sure on what terms the UK is leaving the EU, it's not possible to be any more definitive, which is probably why you couldn't get an answer from the French site.

Kind regards,

Kim


Christie

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:21pm

Christie

Original Poster

Posts: 19

Location: Denia

Joined: 25 Feb 2020

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:21pm

Kimmy11 wrote on Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:48pm:

Hi Christie,

"When you become a resident are you still restricted by the 90/180 rule?" 

Not in Spain.  When you become a Spanish resident (not the same as citizenship), for the first 5 years, your residency is 'temporary' - you have to live in Spain for at least 183 days per year; but in those first 5 years, you cannot be absent for more than a total of 12 months.  Once you have lived permanently in Spain for 5 years, your residency is 'permanent' and you cannot be outside of Spain for more than 12 months continuously, nor more than 30 months total during the previous 5 years.

"Can you stay longer than 90 days in another EU country?"

As a Spanish resident, yes, because your time spent in Spain would not count towards the Schengen rule of 90 days in a rolling 180 days, but as a UK citizen you would still be subject to the residency rules I've described in the answer above.  (If you do not have residency in Spain or any other EU country, you would not be able to spend more than 90 days in another EU country.)

"Or can you come back for say 2 days to Spain then have another 90 days in another EU country?"

No, while your time in Spain doesn't count against the 90 in 180 Schengen rules, if you've spent 90 days in another Schengen country, you would still have to return to Spain for 90 days before you could enter the Schegen travel zone again.  Also, as a Spanish resident (temporary or permanent residency), you can leave Spain for more than 90 days (to return, for example, to the UK or Ireland, which are not Schengen zone countries), but subject to the maximum absences described in my first answer regarding the need to comply with the terms of your Spanish residency.

"Also to muddy the waters if your spouse has a EU passport can you stay longer with them?"

Without residency, no.  Before the end of this year, you can apply for residency in Spain in your own right and retain your rights as an EU citizen.  From 1 January 2021, it will probably be easier for you to apply as a family member of your EU spouse, rather than in your own right as a TCN (Third Country National).  Unfortunately, until we know for sure on what terms the UK is leaving the EU, it's not possible to be any more definitive, which is probably why you couldn't get an answer from the French site.

Kind regards,

Kim


Thanks Kim very helpful.

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yevlondon

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:59am

Posts: 19

17 helpful points

Location: Alicante City

Joined: 10 Jul 2020

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:59am

My understanding is quite different from previous comments.

Spanish residents are not limited in number of days they spend in SPAIN ONLY. 

90/180 rule still applies when you travel to other Schengen countries that are not Spain. But days spent in Spain are not counted towards then 90. 

So if you go to France for 60 days, then return to Spain for 60 days, then you can only spend 30 more days in Italy, Germany or other Schengen countries in the 60 days after that (so you count days in France but not in Spain, which gives you 90 - 60 = 30 remaining).

An interesting question is how will they check the number of days spent in each Schengen country if there are no stamps for travel inside Schengen....

Christie

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:56pm

Christie

Original Poster

Posts: 19

Location: Denia

Joined: 25 Feb 2020

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:56pm

yevlondon wrote on Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:59am:

My understanding is quite different from previous comments.

Spanish residents are not limited in number of days they spend in SPAIN ONLY. 

90/180 rule still applies when you travel to other Schengen countries that are not Spain. But days spent in Spain are not counted towards then 90. 

So if you go to France for 60 days, then return to Spain for 60 days, then you can only spend 30 more days in Italy, Germany or other Schengen countries in the 60 days after that (so you count days in France but not in Spain, which gives you 90 - 60 = 30 remaining).

An interesting question is how will they check the number of days spent in each Schengen country if there are no stamps for travel inside Schengen....

Thanks yevlondon I like watching Cycling races Tde F 30 days Giro Italy, 30 days per season classics 40 days. Soon mount up!

But if I cycle over a track/road to France who is going to know. I'm sure most EU countries value the tourist trade.

yevlondon

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:22pm

Posts: 19

17 helpful points

Location: Alicante City

Joined: 10 Jul 2020

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:22pm

Christie wrote on Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:56pm:

Thanks yevlondon I like watching Cycling races Tde F 30 days Giro Italy, 30 days per season classics 40 days. Soon mount up!

But if I cycle over a track/road to France who is going to know. I'm sure most EU countries value the tourist trade.

these are Schengen rules applying to all non EU states. so UK as well (from 1 Jan). nothing to do with wanting tourism or not. one can take a chance and hope for the best, but one can get caught if you overstay in a Schengen country in which you do not reside. personal decision really. 

Kimmy11

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:12pm

Kimmy11

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Posts: 6869

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Joined: 8 Aug 2017

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:12pm

yevlondon wrote on Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:59am:

My understanding is quite different from previous comments.

Spanish residents are not limited in number of days they spend in SPAIN ONLY. 

90/180 rule still applies when you travel to other Schengen countries that are not Spain. But days spent in Spain are not counted towards then 90. 

So if you go to France for 60 days, then return to Spain for 60 days, then you can only spend 30 more days in Italy, Germany or other Schengen countries in the 60 days after that (so you count days in France but not in Spain, which gives you 90 - 60 = 30 remaining).

An interesting question is how will they check the number of days spent in each Schengen country if there are no stamps for travel inside Schengen....

What makes you think a UK citizen would believe they HAD to count the days in Spain if they were a Spanish resident??

Kind regards, 

Kim

yevlondon

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:23pm

Posts: 19

17 helpful points

Location: Alicante City

Joined: 10 Jul 2020

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:23pm

Kimmy11 wrote on Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:12pm:

What makes you think a UK citizen would believe they HAD to count the days in Spain if they were a Spanish resident??

Kind regards, 

Kim

please read my comment again. i said nothing of a kind. i said that  for people who are resident in Spain days in Spain DO NOT count towards 90/180. obviously people with resident permit in spain can stay there without limit.

as soon as UK national resident in Spain leaves Spain and goes to another Schengen country, 90/180 clock starts ticking until they either return to Spain or leave Schengen area.

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