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Getting a residence card

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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:09pm
10 replies319 views7 members subscribed
John2003

Posts: 7

1 helpful posts

 Hello, 

a few days ago I had an appointment in Elche at the Police Department for my Certificate of Registration.  Apart from the fact that they refused to try to speak English in an immigration department of the police (in Elche), where I was for an appointment made 7 weeks ago and was treated as a vagabond, my residency application was rejected and after the officer gathered all the papers I could leave  because my pension had not been  deposited at a Spanish bank account. I  do have a Caixca account and  but, as a rule, my   pension have been deposited in my ING account. It seems quite absurd to me that, although I  will pay taxes in Spain, apparently they force you to have a bank account in Spain and deposit my pension there. By the way, the details of my pension were translated into Spanish and the Apostille in The Hague. The official said that I should take someone  with me who spoke Spanish. Bizarre detail by the way was that I first went into the wrong building which was next to the Policestation, which was a kind of health-social welfare Institute . They were helpful in very good english and pointed me out where the policestation was, but as soon I entered the latter everybody seems to be deaf and blind for english.

My question is:  maybe there is here, at this forum, someone  who has experience with this  and an advice what to do or maybe know a gestor or lawyer for some assistance . Thanks for any help .


RayD

RayD

Super helpful member

Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:38pm

Posts: 2157

Location: Catral

1457 helpful posts

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:38pm

Take a translator if you don't speak Spanish. Just as a Spaniard would have to if they wanted to register at a UK border office. Take a Spanish translator rather than a brit one as they will attract more respect and be able to chat more casually with the officer.

I think you have to accept that you are an extranjero in a foreign country and the onus is upon you to communicate to the authorities in Spanish. You may be lucky and get a Policía who does speak a bit of english, but you can't expect it. Remember that they are doing you a favour by allowing you to stay in their country, under certain conditions, and not the other way round. Your status is the same as the marroqui gentleman in the queue behind you, ie one step up from being a vagabond 😉

My experience has always been that if you at least try and speak the language, they will be a lot more accommodating. I had a Spanish lady as a translator but still tried to communicate in very halting Spanish, which was appreciated and got a smile.

Regarding the Spanish bank, the officer needs to be convinced that you have sufficient income to support yourself in Spain and usually need to see at least 3 months pension or salary going into a bank account. Now, the grey area is where the bank account needs to be. Some have got away with showing it in a UK bank, but you can't rely upon that. The expectation is that you have it going into a Spanish bank and that the Spanish bank certify your statement for you. It does at least show your commitment to the country.

Although brexit hasn't yet happened, the authorities know that it is imminent and appear to be applying the rules a lot more strictly. Your next appointment could be even more difficult as you will be a third country national trying to get a TIE.

LeckyLes

LeckyLes

Helpful member

Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:48pm

Posts: 454

Location: Cabo Roig

357 helpful posts

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:48pm

Ray D your advice  quote : " Remember tthat they are doing you a favour by allowing you to stay in their country " 

Really ?  I think that you will find that providing John complies with the relevant criteria for Resdency then he  has an enshrined right under E.U Law to reside in Spain No need or requirement for favours  !!!! 

LeckyLes

Movingon

Movingon

Helpful member

Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:04pm

Posts: 489

Location: Albatera

268 helpful posts

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:04pm

I don't mean to kick a man when he's down but honestly it's churlish to get titty lipped because they wouldn't speak English with you and if you'd done your homework properly you'd have known that for residency applications being able to demonstrate regular (and adequate) income in Spain, preferably at least 3 months worth, is standard procedure.

Taking a Spanish speaker, or better still a Gestor, is advice you should probably have headed first time round and I'm sure there will be people you know in or around where you live who have succesfully attained their residencia will be able to point you in the right direction. 

Good luck in getting a replacement appointment but I think we can safely say that it won't be coming around in anything like the 7 weeks you waited for this one.

Movingon

Movingon

Helpful member

Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:16pm

Posts: 489

Location: Albatera

268 helpful posts

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:16pm

LeckyLes wrote on Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:48pm:

Ray D your advice  quote : " Remember tthat they are doing you a favour by allowing you to stay in their country " 

Really ?  I think that you will find that providing John complies with the relevant criteria for Resdency then he  has an enshrined right under E.U Law to reside in Spain No need or requirement for favours  !!!! 

LeckyLes

Come on, enshrined rights or not we all know how it can actually work on the ground and I have no problem whatsoever in believing that many Spanish officials do think that they in the business of dolling out favours! 

It's a bit like dealing with the police, whether you're in the right or in the wrong failing the attitude test can make the world of difference to the outcome.

RayD

RayD

Super helpful member

Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:19pm

Posts: 2157

Location: Catral

1457 helpful posts

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:19pm

LeckyLes wrote on Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:48pm:

Ray D your advice  quote : " Remember tthat they are doing you a favour by allowing you to stay in their country " 

Really ?  I think that you will find that providing John complies with the relevant criteria for Resdency then he  has an enshrined right under E.U Law to reside in Spain No need or requirement for favours  !!!! 

LeckyLes

By saying "Apart from the fact that they refused to try to speak English in an immigration department of the police (in Elche), where I was for an appointment made 7 weeks ago and was treated as a vagabond" the OP is implying that the policía should have pulled out all the stops for him as he was doing them a favour.

He may have an enshrined right under EU law, but to claim that right he has to comply with the regulations required - which he apparently didn't.

I rather read the post as a hissy fit because things didn't go the way the OP wanted and he blamed their attitude rather than perhaps his non-compliance.

Perhaps I put it a bit more strongly than I should have. On the other hand, if he doesn't get another appointment pre-brexit, and has to apply as a third country national, his entitlement will not be enshrined in EU law and he will have to jump through even more hoops, which may include having to have a lot more income.

I think in these situations it's always best to be over polite and grateful that you get your residency, rather than complain that the officials didn't bend to your inadequacies in your request.

LeckyLes

LeckyLes

Helpful member

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:10pm

Posts: 454

Location: Cabo Roig

357 helpful posts

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:10pm

All good valid points above, my only gripe was the statement suggesting they were doing the O.P. a favour. Ray D has now clarified by conceding he put it a bit stronger than he should have .👍

LeckyLes.

jimtaylor

jimtaylor

Legendary helpful member

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:29pm

Posts: 3311

Location: Almoradí

4592 helpful posts

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:29pm

Siding - in part - with the OP, I'd point out that Elche are the police station who a few months ago stuck notices up on the wall detailing what they required of applicants, totally ignoring what the legal requirements actually are. Images of those notices are on the Talk Quesada forum.

John2003

John2003

Original Poster

Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:48pm

Posts: 7

1 helpful posts

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:48pm

Exactly Jim , the people here who think that they ( The police station) have to "bend "for me etc...did not read or not understand my English . First of all I am Dutch  and speak and write English rather fluently although still make mistakes of course :)). Curious how good their Dutch is.:))  I am also fluent at German en moderate at French but  indeed after been here 4 months I dont speak Spanish yet . Partly because i am not 39 anymore but almost 70 . Very bad isnt it ? How do you dare to come here !

The only thing i expect from a civilised country is that they treat your decently/normally as I of course do to them. The officer cán refuse my request .. of course .. but does it cost anything to be friendly ? If you dont like your job go sell ice-cream . And , moreover, if anyone wants to know the,  apparently,  frequently occurring attitude in Elche read the google reviews . there are 40 : https://www.google.com/search?q=commissariat+de+police&npsic=0&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=38168730,-588527,21559&tbm=lcl&ved=2ahUKEwjBi5jSueTiAhXrDmMBHavoAKcQjGp6BAgKEBo&tbs=lrf:!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:4&rldoc=1#rldoc=1&rlfi=hd:;si:13903742182197220811,l,ChZjb21taXNzYXJpYXQgZGUgcG9saWNlIgOIAQFaGAoWY29tbWlzc2FyaWF0IGRlIHBvbGljZQ;mv:!1m2!1d43.7673382!2d1.2286228!2m2!1d35.063873799999996!2d-1.0743406!3m12!1m3!1d4224910.835065332!2d0.07714110000000002!3d39.415606!2m3!1f0!2f0!3f0!3m2!1i105!2i514!4f13.1

In my humble opinion when you work at an organisation where all kinds of nationalities appear , as i saw from all over the world, you have to speak at least a little bit English. 

Furthermore I HAD my  lawyer authenticated Spanish translated income data with me with an court stamps ( Apostille). And indeed Jim .. Spain , i suppose , wants to be in the EU but the "reason" why this man refused my Residence is not in accordance with EU rules. As you probably know we have in the EU since 2012 the SEPA ( Single European Payment Area) and today from an EU advice-site they wrote me that ( quote) : 

"For this you will need a valid identity card or passport, as well as proof that you have sufficient means of subsistence and that you have health insurance. Your benefits do not have to be deposited into a Spanish bank account for this; after all, one of the advantages of SEPA is that one bank account in the entire Euro zone is sufficient"   .https://ec.europa.eu/info/files/document-frequently-asked-questions-single-euro-payments-area_en en https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/banking-and-finance/consumer-finance-and-payments/payment-services/single-euro-payments-area-sepa_en#overview

One thing is for sure...I see that the Spanish sun is not a guarantee for everyone to be always in a good mood, seeing the reactions here :))

RayD

RayD

Super helpful member

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:54pm

Posts: 2157

Location: Catral

1457 helpful posts

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:54pm

"The only thing i expect from a civilised country is that they treat your decently/normally as I of course do to them. The officer cán refuse my request .. of course .. but does it cost anything to be friendly ?"

Tell that to the Windrush generation who were sent home by the present PM when she was Home Secretary.

And tell that to people like myself born abroad to two generations of servicemen, and had our citizenship revoked by Margaret Thatcher in 1981.

I wouldn't like to be in the place of any EU pensioner trying to get settlement status in the UK at the moment. Particularly if the assessor doesn't speak Finnish or Slovenian.

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