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Has anyone any experience of Squatters? - Page 3

TheRower

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:46am

TheRower

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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:46am

Keith001 wrote on Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:14am:

Dear Benson

Firstly I am very sorry to hear the bad news.

I am very well acquainted with your circumstances as it took our family 4 years to evict our tenant/squatter (and the nightmare is not over yet even after evicting him).

If you hire a lawyer it will cost you about 1500 euros + another 1600 for procurador costs.  If the utilities are contracted in your name you are obliged to pay for their electricity and water bills throughout the court procedure (which could take up to 2 years as there is a massive backlog of court cases). The squatter can also prosecute you for coercion if you ask for the energy and water to be cut off.

If I'd known how biased the State and Judicial system were in favour of squatters I would never have gone down the legal route.

1. The squatters probably don't have any savings and will delay court proceedings while they apply for free legal aid (which can take several weeks ).  The case cannot progress unless they have a legal representative. Many lawyers are keen to be on this 'legal aid assist list' as its a good source of income in Spain so be prepared for some savvy ones who will know every trick in the legal book to delay matters and add to their hourly rates (all paid for by the State).

2. Every accusation made against the squatter can be appealed against. Even if the judge rejects the appeal , the squatter can appeal against that judgement , and so on and on.......  The squatter, if he is really determined, can continue to appeal to a higher court (but he might have to pay his own legal costs for that part).  Our tenant squatter attempted to appeal to the 'Supreme Court Of Spain'  but failed because of a process error . If he'd got through their 'front door process'  we would have had to wait another 5-7 years for them to even look at our eviction case.

3. During the case , a squatter might produce fraudulent documentation to strengthen his case (possibly a fraudulent lease contract ). The courts do not seem to check or question documentation that is presented to the court and it will be up to your own lawyer to object (which could lengthen the court case even further).

4. During the court case , the squatter will sack his lawyer so that he doesn't have a legal representative . He will make all sorts of excuses to warrant the dismissing of his lawyer . This will delay the court proceedings for another 10 working days while the Court requests the Spanish Legal Bar to recruit another on their 'waiting list' .   Our tenant sacked his lawyer 4  times during the court case and the judges didn't bat an eyelid.

5. Then nearer the end of the eviction process the squatter will claim 'vulnerability '  due to injury or sickness or other mental ailment .  The judge will have no option but to ask the Social Services to intervene and interview the squatter.  If they agree that the squatter is vulnerable they have 1 month to provide him with some alternative assistance (ie. maybe temporary accommodation, etc).

6. Once the Judge has ordered the eviction it goes to the SCNE (some court office that arranges for court officials to enact the eviction). We waited 4  months for them to arrange an eviction date.

7. Then be prepared for the SCNE to cancel the eviction at the last moment (for a plethora of reasons that the squatter and his lawyer know how to exploit).  Our eviction was cancelled 2 times with a total wait of over 6 months . The 2nd eviction attempt found that our tenant was subletting our property to a young lady and son therefore the SCNE could not evict them. The 3rd eviction had an African man staying in our flat and he wouldn't leave so the SCNE called the Guardia to force him out and legally evict our tenant.

I recommend that you be there when the eviction happens to ensure that once your locksmith changes the lock  (it will cost you 100 euros if you are replacing it with a standard cylinder lock) he hands you all the sets of keys. If you are not there and there is the slightest doubt concerning the location of your flat , the SCNE will cancel the eviction.  If you are travelling to Spain , you might have many wasted journeys (and expense) if the SCNE evictions are cancelled.

Note that a squatter might leave the property before the eviction date and be replaced by another squatter in which case you may need to start from scratch again on the legal side.

My recommendation if you are going down the legal route is to proceed with the Criminal route rather than the Civil route . It might take 2  years and there is the chance that the squatter could be jailed and have a criminal sentence against his name (but sadly I've also heard stories of judges just handing out a 200-300 euro fine).

Have you contacted the Police ?  There is something called 'Alert Cops' which is a mobile application that can be used to inform the local police that squatters have entered your property. It's in English so that might be something you might wish to do and maybe strike lucky and the police might kick them out (but I doubt it). Normally the Police will only visit if the owner or a representative of the owner is at the premises  or if a burglar alarm has gone off.  My general experience is that Police cannot be bothered and they never reply back to my emails (especially if they are in English).

I can recommend a solicitor if you wish but be prepared that this could cost you many thousands of euros. Our 1st solicitor made a terrible process error in our 1st eviction attempt through the courts and it cost us 4700 euros having to pay the tenants court costs and their free-legal aid lawyer rates (so please be careful about picking the right lawyer). We still haven't paid it because we ran out of money so there is a threat that an embargo will be levied on our flat and it will be auctioned off . The tenant owes us 11k but is claiming he has no assets so unfortunately he gets off scot free . Also if he loses the case and does not earn enough salary to meet some threshold , his free legal aid costs (which he's obliged to pay if he loses the case) gets annulled after 3 years. We have paid 1k  lawyer and court costs appealing against the threat of an embargo asking for the 4.7k to be offset against the 11k he owes us (still awaiting the judgement after 8 months but you can bet that the judge will not accept our appeal).

So there you have the legal route which is 'not fit for purpose' and utterly biased towards the squatter.

I have heard that amendments to the squatter eviction law was made on the 15th September where one might evict and prosecute them for 'Trespassing/Burglary' . I'm unsure whether this law is actually being enacted through the Courts but a good lawyer will know.

Here are some links that might help you.

Instructions how to deal with squatters - Terrazas del Rodeo (terrazas-del-rodeo.com)

Squatters in Spain, and how to avoid adverse possession (spanishpropertyinsight.com)

There is however other ways but not entirely legal but are mentioned in you-tube videos (where you 'out-squat ' the squatter).

If it happens to us again we are not planning to pursue the legal route and we may have to hire a negotiating company to get them out (might cost us 500-1000 euros but it will be cheaper).

Desokupa tu Vivienda con FueraOkupas. Empresa de Desocupación

Wow, really sorry to read about your nightmare experience.

I was wondering was this person a tenant with a contract or did they just break into your property?

Benson

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:43am

Benson

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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:43am

TheRower wrote on Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:46am:

Wow, really sorry to read about your nightmare experience.

I was wondering was this person a tenant with a contract or did they just break into your property?

Just broke in 

Gloria68

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:17am

Gloria68

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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:17am

Benson wrote on Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:54pm:

Hi All, Just discovered I have squatters and now wondering the best course of action. Whether to use a British solicitor or one in Torrevieja. Has anyone any experience of this nightmare. Solicitor recommendations or any other suggestion which would be most helpful as My main resident is in Engla...

...nd. Thanks for viewing . Benson

Hi

Cant you stop paying the electric ,and water, pull rhe plug at rhe bank, let them do with out, 

mack

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:47am

mack

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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:47am

Benson wrote on Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:21pm:

Could you supply the details of the supplier etc if you have it at hand. Thanks again. 

Have a look at there reviews on trust pilot before doing it .I just did not a company I would think about 

Keith001

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:38pm

Keith001

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Top answer

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:38pm

Gloria68 wrote on Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:17am:

Hi

Cant you stop paying the electric ,and water, pull rhe plug at rhe bank, let them do with out, 

Apparently not because the squatters can prosecute you for coercion. 

Here is a situation where one owner took the matter in her own hands (and good on her).

If squatters get in, you need to respond fast (spanishpropertyinsight.com)

I forgot to add that if you have the electricity cut off , the supplier will not reconnect unless your property passes some new EU regulation checks .  This could mean if it fails , you might have to re-wire the whole property.

I've found all these articles by Spanish Insight very useful

Mark Stücklin (spanishpropertyinsight.com)

There is an article by this lawyer that is useful to read

Larrain Nesbitt Abogados

I prefer this option:

6. Squatting the squatter

This option consists in outwitting them using their own tactics against them, exploiting the law in your favour – just like they do. You become a squatter on your own property. You will wait patiently outside, until the squatter leaves the property for whatever reason. Seizing the opportunity of a vacant property you then force your way in and immediately proceed to change the locks – again.

Should the police be called in you can always claim that it is your home, showing the title deed and that you’ve decided to change the locks. You will not mention at all the word ‘squatter’ and in any case you can always report them if they foolishly tryin to force themselves back in your property. Squatters will be hard pressed to sue you, as you are after all the legitimate owner.

They will not try to break into the property once you are inside as this would be a crime punishable with jail, which is exactly what they try to avoid at all costs. What you cannot do is first file a ‘denuncia’ against them and then pursue this option as you would surely be prosecuted – you cannot hedge your bets pursuing both options; it’s one or the other. If you follow this option you must forget requesting police assistance and stick to your guns. Just to make it clear, I do not advocate this option.

Advantages:

– Very swift.
– Depending on how it is done, very cheap.
– No violence necessary – there should be no violence at all.
– You can always prove you are the rightful owner if necessary i.e. Title deed, witnesses

Disadvantages:

– Cunning but not very legal. If along time has elapsed, such as weeks or months, squatters may have already registered themselves as inhabitants in the property at their local town hall, in which case your legal position would be tricky to say the least. This would considerable weaken your legal stand and may lead you to being prosecuted.
– You’ll need to be in full control of your emotions.
– Professional squatters will work in teams and they will rarely make the stupid mistake of leaving a squatted property empty. However, not all squatters are professionals as explained in the article’s introduction. If you force your way in while there’s someone still inside you may find yourself being prosecuted for illegal trespassing (regardless if you are the owner). So make sure there is no-one inside at the time.


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Lukas

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:57pm

Lukas

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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:57pm

Hi Keith, just wanted to say that I read your posts on another forum where you described this situation in detail... and I admire your restraint. I would have, honest to god, just hired some thugs to break in, beat him up and toss him out of a car a few miles outside of the city.

Martyn1986

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:06pm

Martyn1986

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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:06pm

Lukas wrote on Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:57pm:

Hi Keith, just wanted to say that I read your posts on another forum where you described this situation in detail... and I admire your restraint. I would have, honest to god, just hired some thugs to break in, beat him up and toss him out of a car a few miles outside of the city.

Me too 

Keith001

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:27pm

Keith001

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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:27pm

Martyn1986 wrote on Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:06pm:

Me too 

Many thanks for your support - yes it has caused my family great anguish which is why I feel deeply sorry for Benson and his family.

We are fearing that our property has been squatted too back in May'21  (will know more very soon).  I'm almost certain that our evicted tenant and his friends are the culprits again.

Regards

Keith

8102Mko

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:11pm

8102Mko

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Top answer

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:11pm

Benson wrote on Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:54pm:

Hi All, Just discovered I have squatters and now wondering the best course of action. Whether to use a British solicitor or one in Torrevieja. Has anyone any experience of this nightmare. Solicitor recommendations or any other suggestion which would be most helpful as My main resident is in Engla...

...nd. Thanks for viewing . Benson

Very sorry to hear this. It’s the nightmare many folk who have been either afraid or unable to travel during Covid restrictions are in dread of. You’ve done the right thing taking a step back to weigh up your options. 


I got interested in this not only out of interest regarding our own property but also because I worked in most forms of security over the decades in Ireland.  Also very interested because of a couple of recent cases I know of.

One is of a lady who has her property currently occupied & has so for many months now. She has gone the legal route from day 1 which is grinding very slowly. She had also looked into getting a firm who would deal with the squatters more directly but they wanted around €3,000 up front & seem to want more than that again to offer to coax the squatters to leave. She is currently awaiting for a court date.


When we worked at security back home the guarantee was a 30 minute response time or else there was no call out charge. There was also an annual retainer fee which could be paid monthly. It worked well for a lot of homeowners & for businesses too, many of whom found their insurers insisted on it.

Some larger landowners & businesses had a nightly patrol carried out on their premises. A man checking the property at night at staggered times often accompanied by a good dog was a great deterrent &   along with a good alarm & cctv system could save customers a lot of money on their premiums

I know there are Spanish firms available  but I’m amazed that no ExPat firm has stepped in along the Costa that I know of and taken up the security mantle. There must be an opportunity there to operate within the law to help remove squatters as well as operate a legitimate alarm, patrol & rapid response system. A firms plaque on a wall where squatters know somebody will quickly investigate is enough to make them try elsewhere. 

The other case I know of was of an elderly Gent, his son & son in law from UK who took a different approach when alerted by a neighbour that his villa had been squatted in during Covid restrictions last Spring. 

Their friend also advised them the squatter family was about 6 people & that they disappeared early on Fridays to a market.

As soon as a travel window opened up they arrived at their villa & “broke” back in. They spent a couple of hours drawing away the squatters stuff particularly they said many bags of clothes seemingly taken from a clothing banks. They changed all locks & armed with the property deeds awaited the return. 


There was a bit of fuss when the squatters arrived back & they called a lady from some organisation who quickly came to help them & in turn called the police. 

The police had no previous knowledge of the squatters who were out on the roadside ever being in the house.
With their neighbour translating the owner showed them their house deeds etc saying the house was empty when they arrived. 

One of squatters said they had the keys at which the owners told the police they could try them. Their keys didn’t work of course but the owners keys did.

The police were fairly annoyed at this stage & took the details of all the squatters warning them to never return. They were cleared them much to the annoyance of the lady there advising them. 


I guess in your case a lot will depend on who is squatting in your house & what you can find out about them. If it’s a family they may be difficult to move but if it’s one or two people looking for quick money they may settle & move on. 

Such is the problem that 3 years ago the law was changed to help the owners and to speed up evictions but it seems the powers that be aren’t really applying it. Covid of course has amplified the problem even more.

Abaco Legal Advisors in Torrevieja have both UK & Spanish staff & have even written a special piece on squatters last October. A non committal confidential chat with them might do no harm. https://blog.abacoadvisers.com/protect-your-property-from-squatters-in-spain/ 

Another good piece is from up the road in Barcelona which shows how well organised squatting can be. https://www.barcelona-metropolitan.com/living/what-to-do-if-you-have-an-okupa-in-your-house/

Wishing you the very best. 

Martyn1986

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:35pm

Martyn1986

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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:35pm

Keith001 wrote on Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:27pm:

Many thanks for your support - yes it has caused my family great anguish which is why I feel deeply sorry for Benson and his family.

We are fearing that our property has been squatted too back in May'21  (will know more very soon).  I'm almost certain that our evicted tenant and his friends are the culprits again....

...

Regards

Keith

I personally would wait hidden outside until one comes out, batter him into hospital, one at a time until it empty. Or batter him enough that he can send a message to the other saying "leave" 

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