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Gas Fire to replace Log Burner

Posted: Thu Feb 8, 2018 4:07pm
3 replies307 views3 members subscribed
Kelvin1960

Kelvin1960

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Hi

My wife and I have enjoyed the good winter weather here ... our first winter in our Spanish home.

Our house has a log burner, and we inherited a supply of logs.

We had the chimney checked and upgraded, and we have given the log burner a good go, but, to be honest, we don't get it.

The novelty of cutting logs and clearing ashes/dust has worn off.

We're thinking of a butane (or propane) feature gas fire, utilising the chimney.

Does anyone know of any fireplace showrooms we could visit to discuss/arrange an installation ?

Thanks in advance

Kelvin

Kelvin1960

Posted: Sun Feb 9, 2020 1:48pm

Kelvin1960

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Posted: Sun Feb 9, 2020 1:48pm

Hi Alex

We installed propane central heating last year, but we kept the log burner - as a back-up, and occasionally we light it because it looks nice.

The log burner was fun as an occasional hobby. But, as a primary source of heating it was dirty and dusty. It only heated part of the house. It impacted on my wife's breathing. Obtaining logs was a pain. 

If you have no source of heating at present, I would not recommend a log burner.

Best wishes

Kelvin

Kelvin1960

Posted: Sun Feb 9, 2020 2:50pm

Kelvin1960

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Posted: Sun Feb 9, 2020 2:50pm

Hi Alex

We'll be keeping ours.

In my (very) limited experience, the effectiveness of the log burner depends on the layout of the house.

Our house is a detached bungalow. The log burner/chimney is in the middle. It heats the sitting room and the bathroom (which is immediately the other side of the wall with the fire-breast). The rest of the house doesn't get much benefit.

I would think that 2 or 3 storey houses derive much more benefit from log burners - smaller floor plans and exposure of the chimney to the upper floors. 

Our wood burner is only rated at 4.5kw. We have a neighbour who installed an 8kw burner, and he can't get near it !  It isn't very controllable.

We obtained our wood from a yard that sold oak, as well as olive and lemon etc. We soon learnt what worked best for us. Oak lasts longer and provides a slow, steady heat. But you can't light a fire with oak. 

Pine doesn't make good burning wood. It flares quickly and coats the chimney with deposits.

We put in propane central heating. A typical appliance (e.g. a combi-boiler, a gas fire, a cooker hob) only needs an 8mm or 10mm propane pipe, and these pipes can be surface-installed in your house and painted-in. You barely notice them. 

There are some rules about storing propane, which are addressed by the attached thread.

Gas Central heating

Propane is better suited than butane to heating applications, due to the lower evaporating temperature range of the liquefied gas, although I do know someone who has a butane coal-effect fire. I presume the storage rules are similar, although I think butane is only available in bottles.  

Best wishes, whichever solution you choose

Kelvin 

ps .... Our 4.5kw burner is a cassette type. Our predecessors built a masonry chimney breast (maybe half a ton of thermal storage), which warms up. So we get gentle heat.

My neighbour's 8kw burner is s freestanding steel box with a raging fire inside it. The surface gets so hot, he could cook on it. I think it is hazardous.

Kelvin1960

Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:36pm

Kelvin1960

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Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:36pm

This post that was quoted has been deleted.

There was an embedded link in one of my replies to you.

It contained a thread with experiences from several people who have installed central heating (including my own cost breakdown - I did a DIY job).

Our boiler is a "Baxi Neodens Plus" combi. The nominal rating is around 24kw for water heating and 20 kw for heating, which will eat a normal house here in Spain (but they sell bigger ones as well). The central heating demand is generally smaller than the instantaneous hot water demand. I put in 7 radiators last year, and I plan to add another 5 this year. My total heating load will only be around 13kw output when I have finished.

I sized the radiators for UK conditions. We have been through this winter (our first) with the boiler set at a heating flow temperature of 55-60 degrees. But it will go up to 80 degrees, so it is certainly gutsy enough.

I set the hot water supply temperature at 50 degrees on day 1. It controls the flow to 50 degrees and it has been fine. 

Our Baxi was a "mid-price" boiler. Our local installer recommended it, as he advised that it was fit-for-purpose for our needs. It has an automatic  1:7 turn-down ratio, so the water supply temperature doesn't fluctuate and mess up the shower. The boiler was commissioned on October 1st last year, so I don't know yet how it will work in the peak of summer when the water entering the house from the street is already quite warm (in Summer I shower in "cold" water, but my wife likes it a bit warmer, and our previous gas water heater couldn't "turn-down" enough, so she ended up running hot water down the sink just to keep the boiler going). If I am in the shower, I don't notice anything when a kitchen tap is turned on, or if the dishwasher/washing machine draws water, so the system is temperature-stable. It would probably run 2 showers simultaneously.

Like the UK, you must be qualified to work with gas in Spain, so although I did much of the work myself, I left the boiler (and the final gas connections, the flue, and a few other bits and pieces) to our installer. He charged 1860 Euros for the boiler, the flue, the connections etc., and for arranging/coordinating with the CEPSA guy (CEPSA need to certify your gas storage installation).  I just checked Leroy Merlin's website. They are currently offering to fit  the same boiler for 1299 Euros (but I'm guessing that would be a like-for-like replacement, without the flue, gas pipework etc.). Here is the link.

https://www.leroymerlin.es/fp/81968061/caldera-de-condensacion-de-gas-natural-baxi-neodens-plus-24

  

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