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Tax Returns - double taxation agreement

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:32am
10 replies205 views5 members subscribed
Melissa0411

Posts: 45

24 helpful points

Location: Santa Pola

Joined: 27 Jan 2020

Hi,

Does anyone know the correct forms we should be using when completing our tax return here in Spain. My other half works in the UK but we live in Spain.  

I understand there is a double taxation agreement in place. Which forms do we use to notify the UK gov that we need to pay tax in Spain? They are being a little awkward about it all. 

Or can anyone recommend someone we can talk to? We are using a Gestor at the moment but can't seem to get a straight answer. 

Thanks, 

Melissa

Kelvin1960

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:01pm

Kelvin1960

Super helpful member

Posts: 1488

1767 helpful points

Joined: 5 Mar 2017

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:01pm

Here is the form 

Double Taxation: UK - Spain (Form Spain-Individual) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

But it isn't that simple.

Assuming you should be paying tax income in Spain ...

- go to a tax assessor/gestor to declare for tax

- Spanish income tax works 12 months in arrears, so the year you start paying depends on your TIE/Residency card date. If you gained Residency/TIE between Jan-June in any year, you are tax-resident in Spain w.e.f 1/1/that year. If you are granted Residency/TIE between July-Dec, you are tax-Resident in Spain w.e.f 1/1/the following year. You reconcile tax the year after you become tax-resident. 

- you declare/pay tax in Spain

- then you claim the UK-paid tax back (using the above form)

- you pay double tax for a period while the admin catches up

- in our case, this was >2 years (admittedly, Covid slowed the process down)

Melissa0411

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:40pm

Melissa0411

Original Poster

Posts: 45

24 helpful points

Location: Santa Pola

Joined: 27 Jan 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:40pm

Kelvin1960 wrote on Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:01pm:

Here is the form 

Double Taxation: UK - Spain (Form Spain-Individual) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

But it isn't that simple.

Assuming you should be paying tax income in Spain ...

- go to a tax assessor/gestor to declare for tax

- Spanish income tax works 12 months in arrears, so the year you start paying depends on your TIE/Residency card date. If you gained Residency/TIE between Jan-June in any year, you are tax-resident in Spain w.e.f 1/1/that year. If you are granted Residency/TIE between July-Dec, you are tax-Resident in Spain w.e.f 1/1/the following year. You reconcile tax the year after you become tax-resident. 

- you declare/pay tax in Spain

- then you claim the UK-paid tax back (using the above form)

- you pay double tax for a period while the admin catches up

- in our case, this was >2 years (admittedly, Covid slowed the process down)

Thank you so much for the information. 

This is the form I originally thought but the UK tax office are being difficult about it. Residencia was granted in Dec 2020 so this is the first year we are doing a tax return. We do have a gestor helping but its been a very slow process and I wanted to make sure we were doing it all correctly. So many stories where it goes wrong. 

We will keep persisting with all the paperwork and somewhere along the line I'm sure it will all add up and make sense. 

Thanks again. 

tebo53

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:11pm

tebo53

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 4775

4960 helpful points

Location: Benidorm

Joined: 29 May 2018

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:11pm

Melissa0411 wrote on Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:40pm:

Thank you so much for the information. 

This is the form I originally thought but the UK tax office are being difficult about it. Residencia was granted in Dec 2020 so this is the first year we are doing a tax return. We do have a gestor helping but its been a very slow process and I wanted to make sure we were doing it all correctly. ...

...So many stories where it goes wrong. 

We will keep persisting with all the paperwork and somewhere along the line I'm sure it will all add up and make sense. 

Thanks again. 

I personally wouldn't use a Gestor as they are not always qualified sufficiently for complex tax returns. I would at least use a firm of solicitors who have a tax specialist partnership. In the long run it could be sorted quicker and, maybe, end up cheaper. 

Steve 

Kelvin1960

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:00pm

Kelvin1960

Super helpful member

Posts: 1488

1767 helpful points

Joined: 5 Mar 2017

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:00pm

tebo53 wrote on Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:11pm:

I personally wouldn't use a Gestor as they are not always qualified sufficiently for complex tax returns. I would at least use a firm of solicitors who have a tax specialist partnership. In the long run it could be sorted quicker and, maybe, end up cheaper. 

Steve 

Steve has a fair point.

The "gestor" firm that we use is also a solicitor, tax assessor, insurance broker etc., so they are pretty capable. 

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Kelvin1960

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:45pm

Kelvin1960

Super helpful member

Posts: 1488

1767 helpful points

Joined: 5 Mar 2017

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:45pm

Melissa0411 wrote on Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:40pm:

Thank you so much for the information. 

This is the form I originally thought but the UK tax office are being difficult about it. Residencia was granted in Dec 2020 so this is the first year we are doing a tax return. We do have a gestor helping but its been a very slow process and I wanted to make sure we were doing it all correctly. ...

...So many stories where it goes wrong. 

We will keep persisting with all the paperwork and somewhere along the line I'm sure it will all add up and make sense. 

Thanks again. 

OK ... you might be missing a piece of the jigsaw.

I assume you are about to pay your first chunk of income tax in Spain (and again in November).

In September/October you will receive a certificate from the Spanish tax authorities that confirms that you are legally Resident in Spain, and that you are paying income tax in Spain. 

Having made a copy, you send the original certificate to HMRC with the Spain individual form. 

I don't think your gestor is being obstructive ... the process is just long-winded.

I'm not sure if the certificate comes automatically, or if your gestor has to request in .. so I suggest you ask that question.

swcoulthurst

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:37pm

swcoulthurst

Very helpful member

Posts: 1148

915 helpful points

Location: Mutxamel

Joined: 11 Nov 2015

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:37pm

Kelvin1960 wrote on Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:01pm:

Here is the form 

Double Taxation: UK - Spain (Form Spain-Individual) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

But it isn't that simple.

Assuming you should be paying tax income in Spain ...

- go to a tax assessor/gestor to declare for tax

- Spanish income tax works 12 months in arrears, so the year you start paying depends on your TIE/Residency card date. If you gained Residency/TIE between Jan-June in any year, you are tax-resident in Spain w.e.f 1/1/that year. If you are granted Residency/TIE between July-Dec, you are tax-Resident in Spain w.e.f 1/1/the following year. You reconcile tax the year after you become tax-resident. 

- you declare/pay tax in Spain

- then you claim the UK-paid tax back (using the above form)

- you pay double tax for a period while the admin catches up

- in our case, this was >2 years (admittedly, Covid slowed the process down)

Make sure you get a tax advisor who fully understands double taxation. When we became resident my wife was told she had to claim the tax back from HMRC...this is not true, maybe in some instances but definitely not in her case. If the earnings were in the UK, the UK tax man wants the tax. This has been going back and forth for 2 years. Finally just getting a refund from the Spanish Tax Office a month ago. 

swcoulthurst

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:41pm

swcoulthurst

Very helpful member

Posts: 1148

915 helpful points

Location: Mutxamel

Joined: 11 Nov 2015

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:41pm

Kelvin1960 wrote on Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:45pm:

OK ... you might be missing a piece of the jigsaw.

I assume you are about to pay your first chunk of income tax in Spain (and again in November).

In September/October you will receive a certificate from the Spanish tax authorities that confirms that you are legally Resident in Spain, and that you are paying income tax in Spain. 

Having made a copy, you send the original certificate to HMRC with the Spain individual form. 

I don't think your gestor is being obstructive ... the process is just long-winded.

I'm not sure if the certificate comes automatically, or if your gestor has to request in .. so I suggest you ask that question.

Just one more thing to mention. My wife's certificate was rejected by HMRC because there was 1 incorrect word in the title of the certificate. Sorry I cant remember what it was, but there are actually 2 versions of the form. 1 accepted by HMRC 1 not. 

John1944

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:55pm

Posts: 2

2 helpful points

Location: Santa Pola

Joined: 14 Aug 2020

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:55pm

We have always found [email protected]

Very helpful.

Villas

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:35pm

Villas

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 4316

3504 helpful points

Location: Sax

Joined: 29 May 2017

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:35pm

Melissa0411 wrote on Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:40pm:

Thank you so much for the information. 

This is the form I originally thought but the UK tax office are being difficult about it. Residencia was granted in Dec 2020 so this is the first year we are doing a tax return. We do have a gestor helping but its been a very slow process and I wanted to make sure we were doing it all correctly. ...

...So many stories where it goes wrong. 

We will keep persisting with all the paperwork and somewhere along the line I'm sure it will all add up and make sense. 

Thanks again. 

To make it simple.

As "tebo53" above. If you want forum advice, ask here (on a forum). 

If you want to pay for professional Spanish explanations re: tax, consult an assessoría. That´s what we do & in Spain for reliable cost effective advice, that´s what I´ve used.

V

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