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Spain bans setting the AC below 27 degrees Celsius - Page 3

Alfapash

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:54am

Alfapash

Helpful member

Posts: 342

337 helpful points

Location: Cabo Roig

Joined: 6 Aug 2020

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:54am

aitchc1401 wrote on Tue Aug 9, 2022 10:53am:

Hi,

  on average lithium batteries in cars are expected to last between 10 and 20 years. Tesla expect their batteries to last between 300 - 500 thousand miles, between 21 - 35 years based on a average mileage on 14,000 miles. Tesla are currently working on a battery that that will last 1 million...

... miles, I'm sure they are not the only company working of this.

 If you google lithium battery life you'll find all the facts above and more.

Rgds,

Aitch.

Not a chance, My friends son in law works for Tesla and that's not he's told us. The average person couldn't even afford a Tesla. In fact the average person can't afford most new cars.

Properganda at its best.

Air con to Electric cars, Its all abour electricity, and already the government in Spain Decreed air con to be restricted. Its the most expensive energy 4+ times more than gas.

When LPG was first introduced it was so much cheaper than Petrol or Diesel, now it nearly the same price and it never really caught on. It will be the same when there are more electric cars, there is a reduced tarrif for changing cars in the Uk, to encourage people to buy one, in the future the price will rocket as it did with LPG.  If we haven't got enough electricity now, when gas is no longer available in years to come how is the world going to produce all this electricity. Governments are very slow to put any new infrustucture. People are very anti Nuclear and certaily don't want any in their back yard.

As for installing your own Solar panels there are very strict rules in the UK about installation and I suspect in Spain too, adding to the cost of the panels, cabling, inverter, new consummer units etc.

A car charging point to be installed at your home address if you have a driveway costs £4,000 + in the UK, that too was subsidised at first to about £1500, but that's no longer available.

Where will all the lithium come from and what damage will it cause to mother earth.

Dagurney

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:15pm

Dagurney

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Posts: 282

185 helpful points

Location: Villamartin

Joined: 7 Nov 2017

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:15pm

Lukas wrote on Thu Aug 4, 2022 11:16am:

We need to do this because people are needlessly scared of nuclear energy + because of big oil lobbying which prevents research and development of gen 4 reactors. Nuclear power is the future, it is the perfect and clean solution.

The move to e-mobility is only a piece of the puzzle.

Next generation reactors are already available - funding is the issue- BJ even looked at getting Chinese funding (bad idea). We have not invested in energy for more than a decade relying on cheap imports (indirectly) from Russia and the Middle East - both of which are insecure.

Until we find ways of processing nuclear waste and decomissioning sites nuclear remains very expensive - but this willl come down hopefully. The beter option might be the Fusion option which will not have the same waste either in volume or radioactivity - the first pilot is due to start builtding by 2030. We need a mix of renewables and nuclear for when the wind does not blow or the sun does not shine.

Dagurney

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:23pm

Dagurney

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Posts: 282

185 helpful points

Location: Villamartin

Joined: 7 Nov 2017

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:23pm

Alfapash wrote on Mon Aug 8, 2022 11:38am:

Why on earth does Spain need to conserve energy, the country has solar, they are not heavily dependant on gas..The Uk now has fields full of Solar panels and wind turbines.

If governments around the world was serious about this issue, every home should be built with solar, especially in countries like Spain.. Of course Iberdrola and companies that control the grid wouldn't like that. The population producing their own power. That would never do, big companies losing...

... money.  I live in the Uk but have had solar hot water on my roof for 10 years. My bolier is off for the majority of the summer, even in the winter it heats up to about 40 so only a top up from the boiler is required for a short period for the hot water.

Only hybrid cars are useful in the fact that they can produce their own electricity, whereas fully electrictic cars rely on being charged from a source, much of this is still produced by fosil fuels. Not as green as many think they are .They need batteries, for which the Lithium is being plundered yet again from the earth.They don't last that long about 3-5 years at most and are very costly to replace. So a second hand electric vehicle of 3-4 years will need a new battery, add that on to the cost of the vehicle and it will probably end up as similar cost of a new vehicle.

We need much more nuclear power, solar on the roofs and why other counties with large coastlines are not harnessing the power of the sea, is beyond belief.

Everything is far to slow, so then you have to wonder why the governments don't just make this a priority if its as bad as the say it is? Instead they say, turn down the air-con, don't have your heating on, use less water....... They don't build extra resevoirs to store water, which much just goes into the ground and could be saved. Israel has the largest desalination plant, powered entirely by solar and they make enough clean water for the whole country and an excess which they sell to other mid-eastern countries.

Our Countries make fuel and energy prices so high that soon there will be civil unrest. Already in the Uk, Don't pay.uk is planning a big campaign. Some people will just not be able to pay. £3500+ is totally unaffordable for millions especailly the poor and pensioners who will be afraid to turn their heating on.

Mostly agree with this but the problem is investment - we don't hav the money to build our own new nuclear and solar pannels are also very expensive as an initial investment (otherwisw Africa would be loaded). This is why we have long term energy planning (which has failed for the last decade). We need to take the hit in terms of investing for the future .

Dagurney

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:33pm

Dagurney

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Posts: 282

185 helpful points

Location: Villamartin

Joined: 7 Nov 2017

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:33pm

clivespana wrote on Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:27am:

.
The dropping nuclear bombs “all over the place”  is not far from the truth, in fact during an accident in the1970’sby the USAF,. 2 nuclear bombs were dropped in Palmeres in Spain, one in the sea and one on land, luckily none exploded, the one on land took years to clear the land o...

...f the radiation and even to this day a huge area is still radiated and a no-go area.

The bomb dropped into the sea was NEVER recovered.

SIMILARLY a training flight in the USA between 2 aircraft, both carrying 2 nuclear bombs came to a false start when THEY CRASHED INTO ONE ANOTHER. And the bombs went down with the aircraft. luckily not exploding but radiating wide areas.

So don’t think things like this do not happen, so far we are told it has happened 6 times already.


.

Don't know what the radiation levels were that you refer to but the radiation limits allowed for at say a nuclear plant are very low and in fact if you lived in some parts of the UK the background radiation would be enough to set off the monitors. It is all highly regulated and the allowed dose rates are very conservative. There are still places where lamb cannot be eaten in the UK  because of Chernobyl (or certainly until recently) - was it unsafe....probably not compared to naturally occuring radon gas in Cornwall.

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aitchc1401

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:43pm

aitchc1401

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 1867

2026 helpful points

Location: Los Dolses

Joined: 15 Mar 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:43pm

Alfapash wrote on Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:54am:

Not a chance, My friends son in law works for Tesla and that's not he's told us. The average person couldn't even afford a Tesla. In fact the average person can't afford most new cars.

Properganda at its best.

Air con to Electric cars, Its all abour electricity, and already the government in Spain Decreed air con to be restricted. Its the most expensive energy 4+ times more than gas.

When LPG was first introduced it was so much cheaper than Petrol or Diesel, now it nearly the same price and it never really caught on. It will be the same when there are more electric cars, there is a reduced tarrif for changing cars in the Uk, to encourage people to buy one, in the future the price will rocket as it did with LPG.  If we haven't got enough electricity now, when gas is no longer available in years to come how is the world going to produce all this electricity. Governments are very slow to put any new infrustucture. People are very anti Nuclear and certaily don't want any in their back yard.

As for installing your own Solar panels there are very strict rules in the UK about installation and I suspect in Spain too, adding to the cost of the panels, cabling, inverter, new consummer units etc.

A car charging point to be installed at your home address if you have a driveway costs £4,000 + in the UK, that too was subsidised at first to about £1500, but that's no longer available.

Where will all the lithium come from and what damage will it cause to mother earth.

Hi Alfapash,

       I have no bias either for or against electric cars but I do like to see true facts reported so I must question you again on what you have been told. Attached is an article from EDF on electric cars, it states that expected battery life if between 10-20 years. Also that most manufacturers give a 8 year warranty.

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/batteries

As for Tesla their batteries seem to last longer, read the attached,

https://www.inverse.com/innovation/tesla-battery-life-replacement-cost

The above are both manufacturer independent.

As for charger installation the figure you quote of £4000+ in the UK is excessively high, just googling it locally in Lincs they start (without any subsidies) from £800. The attached company quotes an average cost of £950.

https://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/electric-vehicles/charging-point-installation-cost

 You seem to be anti-electric car which is fine by me, that's your choice, but please quote accurate facts. If you do query the facts I have provided, rather than just say I am wrong please provide documented evidence that supports your figures. 

Rgds,

Aitch.

swcoulthurst

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:56pm

swcoulthurst

Very helpful member

Posts: 1148

915 helpful points

Location: Mutxamel

Joined: 11 Nov 2015

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:56pm

aitchc1401 wrote on Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:43pm:

Hi Alfapash,

       I have no bias either for or against electric cars but I do like to see true facts reported so I must question you again on what you have been told. Attached is an article from EDF on electric cars, it states that expected battery life if between 10-20 years. Also that ...

...most manufacturers give a 8 year warranty.

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/batteries

As for Tesla their batteries seem to last longer, read the attached,

https://www.inverse.com/innovation/tesla-battery-life-replacement-cost

The above are both manufacturer independent.

As for charger installation the figure you quote of £4000+ in the UK is excessively high, just googling it locally in Lincs they start (without any subsidies) from £800. The attached company quotes an average cost of £950.

https://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/electric-vehicles/charging-point-installation-cost

 You seem to be anti-electric car which is fine by me, that's your choice, but please quote accurate facts. If you do query the facts I have provided, rather than just say I am wrong please provide documented evidence that supports your figures. 

Rgds,

Aitch.

Well said.

The charge point installation price mentioned is massively overinflated. My charge point in Spain was around 1600 Euros (around £1300). That's one of the most expensive but depends on what charger you choose. Then on the waiting list for the Moves 111 plan of 70% back (if I ever see it). However I'm quite happy to be paying around 30 - 40 Euros a month extra on electric instead of the180 Euros a month fuel in my previous diesel car.

Alfapash

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:53am

Alfapash

Helpful member

Posts: 342

337 helpful points

Location: Cabo Roig

Joined: 6 Aug 2020

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:53am

swcoulthurst wrote on Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:56pm:

Well said.

The charge point installation price mentioned is massively overinflated. My charge point in Spain was around 1600 Euros (around £1300). That's one of the most expensive but depends on what charger you choose. Then on the waiting list for the Moves 111 plan of 70% back (if I ever see it). However...

... I'm quite happy to be paying around 30 - 40 Euros a month extra on electric instead of the180 Euros a month fuel in my previous diesel car.

Inflated or not, I only know what my neighbour round the road from me in the Uk paid which was £4000. You cannot just link the charging point to your exisiting consummer unit. It has to have a separate supply. He probably paid London prices. When solar was first introduced in the UK. Homeowners got a very good deal on what was paid to them for the energy their roof panels produced, but after a couple of years the Government reduced the amount what the grid had to pay them.

I know that Spain introduced a tax on anyone who had their own solar system, we were going to invest in one for our Community, but the tax was going to make it prohibitive. They probably did that to protect Iberdrola.

I'm not against Electric cars but they do have limitations and they are not all running on green electricity.  I've hardly seen any electric cars in Spain, but no doubt there are some.

Time will tell on how how they perform long term and the costs. Then there's whether enough electricity can be produced and supplied and the cost of it, bearing in mind in the Uk electricity prices are going to rocket next month. Spain so far has given their consummers more help than the UK.

As for EDF the French government are taking them back into full state control to protect French consummers against huge price hikes and to continue expansion in its Nuclear programme. The largest in Europe.

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