UK citizen, Spanish resident, how long can I spend in the uk, can I do some ad hoc work?

Hello Natasha

If you become resident, hopefully before December 31st.  I've read you can stay up to 6months on a 5 year TIE card and up to 2 years on a 10 year TIE Card out of Spain.

Maybe someone else knows and corrects me.

Sue 😘

Certainly up to 6 month for the first 5 years (or, put another way, if you spend > 6 months per year outside of Spain, your TIE is invalidated). Not sure after that ... I haven't thought that far ahead.

If you get a TIE before end 2020, you become tax-resident in Spain for Jan-Dec 2021 onward (although you won't reconcile your income taxes until 2022). So income earned in the UK becomes taxable in Spain.

So.......if you are still working for a UK company and being taxed at source in your transition period, what is the mechanism to claim the tax and NI back from the UK otherwise you will be taxed twice?

Does this question make sense or am I talking out my backside?

Our experience .... my wife and I

We each receive company pensions (we were lucky enough to retire early, so we don't have State Pensions yet). 

We gained Residency in 2018. We are part-way through "reconciling" our tax.

In Feb this year we did our Modelo 720s (declaration of world-wide assets) via our gestor.

In June this year we submitted our tax returns for Jan-Dec 2019.

Late June we paid a lump sum - around 60% of the total bill.

The remaining 40% is due in November.

Next week we start the process of reclaiming the tax from the UK (from Jan 2019). So we haven't done this yet, so no solid experience to offer. As I understand it, the process will reclaim all our UK tax from Jan 2019, and take us out of the UK tax system, NHS etc.

So we have paid UK tax (PAYE) and Spanish tax (lump sum) in parallel. This is a significant cash flow to manage. Our experience seems to be the norm.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Kelvin

Helpful post.

It will be interesting to see how the reclaiming works out for you.

I'm 51 myself and looking to retire but not lucky enough to have early pensions so am relying on other forms of income to fund my Spanish lifestyle. I'm not a money chaser anymore and just hoping for a better life in Spain and if it means I have to restrict my lifestyle by not eating out all the time and nice holidays I will.

I've had a property and a car out there for 8 years and I'm still faffing around with residency. I was toying with residency or splitting the year between the two but this would be a lot more expensive.

Not for this topic but would be interested to learn if you have any things you are unhappy with or things you should/could have done better etc. when you made the move. I don't want mess the topic up shall we say.

Thanks again for the info and apologies to others for going off topic a little bit.

Ha Ha ! .... initial reactions

When we bought our Spanish home in 2017, we were unsure if it was just a holiday home or a permanent home. We planned to suck it and see. Nobody really knew in 2017 what Brexit might turn into, so we did our Residency "to be on the safe side". Residency required private healthcare (we're not 66 yet). Then 2 things happened (a) my wife was diagnosed with cancer, and received excellent healthcare in Spain, so now we are embedded in the healthcare processes here, and (b) the way Brexit has turned out, 3 months in/3 months out doesn't really work for us. So we're here, and don't expect that to change.

Comments ...

Income tax take .... we pay MUCH more income tax in Spain than in the UK (on top of the double taxation/reconciliation process). I would recommend getting an independent tax assessment BEFORE committing to Residency. We had 2 independent assessments, and they came up with roughly the same numbers. Some people say that the increased income tax is netted out by the reduced cost of living. In our case, this is nowhere near true. 

Private healthcare ... not cheap, but much cheaper than in the UK or USA ... we are now 62/60. We took out a 3 year contract in Jan 2018 at around 1760 Euros/year (for both of us). This is due to renew in Jan 2021. It will be interesting to see if the premium rises, as my wife has had around 100K Euros of cancer treatment. There is the Convenio Especial option to fall back on. And, given that we already have Residency, we anticipate receiving S1 healthcare in a few years (assuming nobody blows up the Withdrawal Agreement). 

Future-proofed property .... buying and selling property is much more expensive here than in the UK (taxes, agents' fees, etc.), so it is important to pick the right property. Steps/stairs that are easy when you are 60 might be a pain at 70, and impossible in later years. We got this partially right. We bought a house on a gently sloping plot. Our home is really a bungalow, with split-level guest accommodation alongside (and we don't need to go in there very often). That said, my wife is recovering from her treatment, but last year exposed the flaws in our house. Over the next few months we plan to make some home improvements. The outside steps will be supplemented with ramps and the garden will be hard-surfaced.

Property maintenance ... we thought we had bought a low-maintenance property. We were wrong. We bought a vacant property; the owner was old and had retreated to Germany. We assumed that the garden was low-maintenance. We didn't realise that the owner had people looking after the garden twice each week. The garden has pretty pine trees, but they are so, so messy. I could sweep up twice a day and still not keep up. The forthcoming project will reduce the trees.

Swimming pool - the electricity and water cost much more than the chemicals. If you run the pool yourself, allow 1000 Eu per year. If you pay someone, allow 2000 Eu.

Gota Fria - last September was a surprise !  We live near the top of a hill, but we still had some limited damage. It was disastrous for many and, sadly, fatal for a few. Our forthcoming project will install 9 extra drainage grids (each 2000m by 300mm) in our garden, together with a 300mm drainage pipe across the bottom of our neighbour's garden (he has consented) to the Ayuntamienta storm-water gully.  Think about the lie of the land before you buy. 

Winter - it gets cold. We installed gas central heating.

We don't go to the beach very often .... so beach access isn't very important.

I like to do a little but of university study (distance learning). It looks like Brexit will see-off the UK/EU fee scale. As a Spanish Resident, it looks like I will end up as an "International Student". This triples the fees (or worse), so that hobby might be coming to an end. But I have looked into studying at the University of Murcia. The fees are tiddly in comparison with UK fees, but I would need to improve my Spanish language skills. 

Overall though, we consider ourselves lucky to be here. It is easy to join social groups (Covid permitting). We really enjoy it.

Hi and thanks for the comprehensive notes.

Sorry to hear about your wife and I'm glad she was well cared for in Spain.

I'm happy with my villa albeit it is two storey but hopefully that will suit us for a good few years yet.

I have a pool man who currently looks after it and it costs about €1200 - 1500 per annum including the water and electric and this is an essential item as it stands at the moment. The pool is only an 8x4 so perhaps is the reason why it works out a little cheaper.

I too had liver cancer in 2013 and have made a full recovery after a resection and this is one of the reasons why I decided to enjoy life more. Like you say I will have to see how the health system works but hopefully I can get this covered if I needed to.

I did contact "Get Legal in Spain" about my tax affairs and was supposed to meet up with Uma at the beginning of Sept. Unfortunately I badly broke my ankle so wasn't able to get out. After two operations I should now be able to get out at the end of November where I can then discuss my affairs. Who did you use if you don't mind me asking? Fortunately I can moderate my income accordingly due to having trusts in place in the UK which means my children own my assets apart from my savings which does add up. These will be declared as part of my WW assets. I can effectively take a basic pay as income in Spain to keep any income tax low. All legal and is efficient tax planning from a few years ago.

Its only the healthcare that bothers me but think it all should be okay.

Sounds like a lot of work you are doing but all worth it for your reasons as stated to make both your lives more enjoyable.

Thanks for the info again.

Regards

Glen.

Sounds like you have your finances worked out.

We were regular employees - we did not have your flexibility.

The advisers that we used ...

Milagros Ballester Espinosa S.L.

Apdo. de Correos nº 581 

C/Caballero de Rodas nº 2, 2º C 03181 

Torrevieja (Alicante) Spain 

Milagros Ballester([email protected])

Tel: (0034) 965717925 Mobile: (0034) 616028487 Fax: (0034) 966703270 

and 

http://www.britannialegals.com/

Both companies are good, but Britannia Legals are a 4 minute walk from our house - no brainer.

Best wishes

K

Thank you.

All the best. Glad you are sorted in the best scenario.

Hope the renovations work out. I've just had my villa partly refurbished and very pleased with the work and that's one of the reasons why I need to get out to make the last payment to them once I've seen it in person.

Take care.