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Bank require details

Posted: Tue Apr 2, 2024 1:02pm
8 replies5 members subscribed
Ray811

Posts: 21

5 helpful points

Location: Rafol d'Almunia

Joined: 23 May 2020

Hello,I am non resident, with a property in Spain and have an account with Sabadell and have recently been asked for proof of earnings, which I have submitted the P60 and payslip details of my wife who works full time.Also we have a notification for Tax Report 2023,which basically says ,it is time to file your income tax return 2023...then shows details of our account " Interest on sight/ savings/ accounts/ time deposits..Number of account holders 2no ,then ,Yield,Type Dinerary and amount 0,00 €....Withholding/ deposit on account 0,00 €,Penalty 0,00€

Then below it says " other relevant information on Wealth Tax/ Temporary Solidarity Tax on major Fortunes" 

Deposits on sight/ savings ,etc,as above, the name of account holders, number of account holders 2no,balance at 31/12/2023 of account, and average balance. This is the first time I  think we have been asked for this,and what I don't understand is what Tax I am meant to be filing a tax return for,and if there was any interest on the account they would know, the account is used for the sole purpose of covering the utility bills, IBI ,and purchasing things when we are in Spain, if anyone can give me any info on this it would be much appreciated. I have called them before, but you can be waiting to get through for ages,and to have a bit of info before doing so would be useful. Thanks again Ray

marcliff

Posted: Tue Apr 2, 2024 1:31pm

marcliff

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 1739

2093 helpful points

Location: Rojales

Joined: 5 Jan 2023

Posted: Tue Apr 2, 2024 1:31pm

Requesting the proof of income is now normal under banking rules to counter money laundering.

The rest of the stuff is for the declaration of foreign holdings which residents, not non residents, complete each year on a Form 720 and is not applicable to non residents. Us residents have to make a declaration on property, money held in foreign (ie, not Spanish) bank accounts and money from shares and dividends.

A non resident is not required to complete that form or make the declaration. Maybe somebody on work experience at your bank getting confuse. All you need to show is where the income you deposit in Spain comes from.

If they are being a bit shirty about admitting they are wrong, close the account and open an online account such as Wise. Plenty of info on here on how to do that and you won't get bank charges either. 

tebo53

Posted: Tue Apr 2, 2024 3:10pm

tebo53

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 4837

5035 helpful points

Location: Benidorm

Joined: 29 May 2018

Posted: Tue Apr 2, 2024 3:10pm

Ray811 wrote on Tue Apr 2, 2024 1:02pm:

Hello,I am non resident, with a property in Spain and have an account with Sabadell and have recently been asked for proof of earnings, which I have submitted the P60 and payslip details of my wife who works full time.Also we have a notification for Tax Report 2023,which basically says ,it is tim...

...e to file your income tax return 2023...then shows details of our account " Interest on sight/ savings/ accounts/ time deposits..Number of account holders 2no ,then ,Yield,Type Dinerary and amount 0,00 €....Withholding/ deposit on account 0,00 €,Penalty 0,00€

Then below it says " other relevant information on Wealth Tax/ Temporary Solidarity Tax on major Fortunes" 

Deposits on sight/ savings ,etc,as above, the name of account holders, number of account holders 2no,balance at 31/12/2023 of account, and average balance. This is the first time I  think we have been asked for this,and what I don't understand is what Tax I am meant to be filing a tax return for,and if there was any interest on the account they would know, the account is used for the sole purpose of covering the utility bills, IBI ,and purchasing things when we are in Spain, if anyone can give me any info on this it would be much appreciated. I have called them before, but you can be waiting to get through for ages,and to have a bit of info before doing so would be useful. Thanks again Ray

If you are signed onto the Padron in Spain you may be classed as a permanent resident and being asked to pay taxes....

Steve 

Ray811

Posted: Tue Apr 2, 2024 4:58pm

Ray811

Original Poster

Posts: 21

5 helpful points

Location: Rafol d'Almunia

Joined: 23 May 2020

Posted: Tue Apr 2, 2024 4:58pm

tebo53 wrote on Tue Apr 2, 2024 3:10pm:

If you are signed onto the Padron in Spain you may be classed as a permanent resident and being asked to pay taxes....

Steve 

Thanks for replying to me, we haven't registered on the Padron

George55

Posted: Tue Apr 2, 2024 11:45pm

George55

Helpful member

Posts: 355

384 helpful points

Location: Villamartin

Joined: 29 Dec 2020

Posted: Tue Apr 2, 2024 11:45pm

marcliff wrote on Tue Apr 2, 2024 1:31pm:

Requesting the proof of income is now normal under banking rules to counter money laundering.

The rest of the stuff is for the declaration of foreign holdings which residents, not non residents, complete each year on a Form 720 and is not applicable to non residents. Us residents have to make a declaration on property, money held in foreign (ie, not Spanish) bank accounts and money from s...

...hares and dividends.

A non resident is not required to complete that form or make the declaration. Maybe somebody on work experience at your bank getting confuse. All you need to show is where the income you deposit in Spain comes from.

If they are being a bit shirty about admitting they are wrong, close the account and open an online account such as Wise. Plenty of info on here on how to do that and you won't get bank charges either. 

I know I'm like a bear with a sore head - but can you actually point to the specific piece of legislation that requires proof of income? 

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marcliff

Posted: Wed Apr 3, 2024 8:38am

marcliff

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 1739

2093 helpful points

Location: Rojales

Joined: 5 Jan 2023

Posted: Wed Apr 3, 2024 8:38am

George55 wrote on Tue Apr 2, 2024 11:45pm:

I know I'm like a bear with a sore head - but can you actually point to the specific piece of legislation that requires proof of income? 

No, find it yourself if you're that obsessed. 

Ray811

Posted: Wed Apr 3, 2024 10:19am

Ray811

Original Poster

Posts: 21

5 helpful points

Location: Rafol d'Almunia

Joined: 23 May 2020

Posted: Wed Apr 3, 2024 10:19am

marcliff wrote on Tue Apr 2, 2024 1:31pm:

Requesting the proof of income is now normal under banking rules to counter money laundering.

The rest of the stuff is for the declaration of foreign holdings which residents, not non residents, complete each year on a Form 720 and is not applicable to non residents. Us residents have to make a declaration on property, money held in foreign (ie, not Spanish) bank accounts and money from s...

...hares and dividends.

A non resident is not required to complete that form or make the declaration. Maybe somebody on work experience at your bank getting confuse. All you need to show is where the income you deposit in Spain comes from.

If they are being a bit shirty about admitting they are wrong, close the account and open an online account such as Wise. Plenty of info on here on how to do that and you won't get bank charges either. 

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me,I will contact the bank regarding this. 

Ray

TheRower

Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 9:59am

TheRower

Very helpful member

Posts: 498

509 helpful points

Location: Villamartin

Joined: 1 Jan 2017

Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 9:59am

George55 wrote on Tue Apr 2, 2024 11:45pm:

I know I'm like a bear with a sore head - but can you actually point to the specific piece of legislation that requires proof of income? 

I think this covers what you wanted to see. Spain has to comply with AML EU law and it’s primarily covered in that legislation.

https://www.sepblac.es/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/law_10_2010.pdf

George55

Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 7:13pm

George55

Helpful member

Posts: 355

384 helpful points

Location: Villamartin

Joined: 29 Dec 2020

Posted: Thu Apr 4, 2024 7:13pm

TheRower wrote on Thu Apr 4, 2024 9:59am:

I think this covers what you wanted to see. Spain has to comply with AML EU law and it’s primarily covered in that legislation.

https://www.sepblac.es/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/law_10_2010.pdf

The 2010 law was enacted in Spain in 2014 via Royal Decree 304/2014 - so has been around for c10 years. I appreciate things move slowly in the behemoths that are our financial services institutions but would have expected it to have started happening longer ago than the plethora of posts we seem to be seeing now. 

I suspect the answer sits in one of the 4th,5th or more likely the 6th AML Directive which have come since then.

My thinking in narrowing down to the 6th is it is that directive that widens the regulatory scope compared to previously but also extends criminal liability in a more directed way than before. 

And herein lies the problem - these directives only lay things out in general terms around banks obligations - so long story short, in my mind they're seems to be a broad approach of "sledgehammer to crack a nut" approach resulting in material over-reach in terms of data requests from banks.

Wouldn't surprise if at some point all these banks start getting GDPR fines for holding a raft of data they don't need but that's a rant for another day.

All a bit too big brother for my liking - my tax affairs are between me and the tax man not between me and my bank - unless I were to be seeking credit from my bank in which case it would seem reasonable to want proof of income but I'm not seeking credit and never likely to. Maybe I'll move all my banking to the Isle of Man or Jersey and see if they think I'm a high ranking criminal mastermind living off ill-gotten gains! :-)

Am sure the tax man already has enough regulatory powers to look into my bank accounts cross border if they do think I'm the next Asil Nadir!

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