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Has anyone any experience of Squatters? - Page 5

ZENIA33

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:56am

Posts: 17

7 helpful points

Location: La Zenia

Joined: 6 Jul 2021

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:56am

Benson wrote on Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:54pm:

Hi All, Just discovered I have squatters and now wondering the best course of action. Whether to use a British solicitor or one in Torrevieja. Has anyone any experience of this nightmare. Solicitor recommendations or any other suggestion which would be most helpful as My main resident is in Engla...

...nd. Thanks for viewing . Benson

So sorry to hear what has happened to you. We have solicitors in Torrevieja we have used for 20 years. We pay a yearly retainer and they take care of any problems. If it's of interest I can send you their details. We have the same worry as we live in UK and have not been over to visit our home in nearly two years, luckily we have a friend who checks it a few times a week.

Benson

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:08am

Benson

Original Poster

Posts: 33

11 helpful points

Location: La Siesta

Joined: 13 Aug 2021

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:08am

ZENIA33 wrote on Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:56am:

So sorry to hear what has happened to you. We have solicitors in Torrevieja we have used for 20 years. We pay a yearly retainer and they take care of any problems. If it's of interest I can send you their details. We have the same worry as we live in UK and have not been over to visit our home in...

... nearly two years, luckily we have a friend who checks it a few times a week.

Hi Zenia, Thank you for your reply . We did have neighbours who did the same but unfortunately they all have passed and now know nobody. We to have not been there for a few years and because of COVID have this problem. We have a notary who looks after our taxes etc But when you contact them they don’t reply. If you could forward his details he may not deal with squarer situations. Thank you. Benson

8102Mko

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:13am

8102Mko

Helpful member

Posts: 329

210 helpful points

Location: Torrevieja

Joined: 30 May 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:13am

One other point may be insurance cover. I’ve no idea if your normal Spanish Insurance covers squatters but any basic policy has breaking & entering & theft. They would’ve broken in to gain access and if using your utilities it would be theft of those surely. A call to your insurers might answer that. I’ve also seen specific insurance for sale regarding cover against squatters which covers losses to a certain figure & along with legal costs. I wonder how folk who have had squatters in have got on with their insurers ? 

Benson

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:17am

Benson

Original Poster

Posts: 33

11 helpful points

Location: La Siesta

Joined: 13 Aug 2021

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:17am

8102Mko wrote on Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:13am:

One other point may be insurance cover. I’ve no idea if your normal Spanish Insurance covers squatters but any basic policy has breaking & entering & theft. They would’ve broken in to gain access and if using your utilities it would be theft of those surely. A call to your insurers mi...

...ght answer that. I’ve also seen specific insurance for sale regarding cover against squatters which covers losses to a certain figure & along with legal costs. I wonder how folk who have had squatters in have got on with their insurers ? 

No the insurance won’t cover this situation unfortunately

8102Mko

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:22am

8102Mko

Helpful member

Posts: 329

210 helpful points

Location: Torrevieja

Joined: 30 May 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:22am

Benson wrote on Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:17am:

No the insurance won’t cover this situation unfortunately

Sorry to hear that 

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Lukas

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:05pm

Lukas

Helpful member

Posts: 202

161 helpful points

Location: Villamartin

Joined: 22 Jun 2021

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:05pm

I was just asking the same thing when shopping for insurance. Apparently, damages suffered during the B&E of the squatters are covered, damages suffered during the process of squatting are not. The question is how you prove which is which?

Benson

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:11pm

Benson

Original Poster

Posts: 33

11 helpful points

Location: La Siesta

Joined: 13 Aug 2021

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:11pm

Lukas wrote on Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:05pm:

I was just asking the same thing when shopping for insurance. Apparently, damages suffered during the B&E of the squatters are covered, damages suffered during the process of squatting are not. The question is how you prove which is which?

Exactly and they will wriggle out of paying

8102Mko

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:15pm

8102Mko

Helpful member

Posts: 329

210 helpful points

Location: Torrevieja

Joined: 30 May 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:15pm

Lukas wrote on Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:05pm:

I was just asking the same thing when shopping for insurance. Apparently, damages suffered during the B&E of the squatters are covered, damages suffered during the process of squatting are not. The question is how you prove which is which?

Interesting Lukas. Apart from the costs of the eviction process itself if it was a prolonged situation then serious utility bills could be racked up. I guess if the bills aren’t paid eventually the companies providing these services would cut them off 

Lukas

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:22pm

Lukas

Helpful member

Posts: 202

161 helpful points

Location: Villamartin

Joined: 22 Jun 2021

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:22pm

I'm just thinking out loud here: if you play ignorant and simply say to the utility companies "I want to cancel the contract since I am moving back to my country and will sell the house" and just pretend you have no idea that there are squatters in your house... wouldn't that work? If the squatters sue you, just continue the charade: "Who is suing me? Who are these people? My house is empty. It's not? Well, that's a problem but I turned off the utilities because I am moving back to my country and selling the house". Isn't part of proving guilt proving that you had malicious intent? Perhaps Keith can chime in, I'm sure he had this discussion with one of his lawyers before....

Of course, it's again a game you need to play from the start. Never acknowledge there are any squatters in your property until the police/court/whoever tells you, ideally in writing ("Sorry, mate, my head hurts from all the G&T, you told me what last week?")

Alfapash

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:33pm

Alfapash

Helpful member

Posts: 353

344 helpful points

Location: Cabo Roig

Joined: 6 Aug 2020

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:33pm

Keith001 wrote on Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:14am:

Dear Benson

Firstly I am very sorry to hear the bad news.

I am very well acquainted with your circumstances as it took our family 4 years to evict our tenant/squatter (and the nightmare is not over yet even after evicting him).

If you hire a lawyer it will cost you about 1500 euros + another 1600 for procurador costs.  If the utilities are contracted in your name you are obliged to pay for their electricity and water bills throughout the court procedure (which could take up to 2 years as there is a massive backlog of court cases). The squatter can also prosecute you for coercion if you ask for the energy and water to be cut off.

If I'd known how biased the State and Judicial system were in favour of squatters I would never have gone down the legal route.

1. The squatters probably don't have any savings and will delay court proceedings while they apply for free legal aid (which can take several weeks ).  The case cannot progress unless they have a legal representative. Many lawyers are keen to be on this 'legal aid assist list' as its a good source of income in Spain so be prepared for some savvy ones who will know every trick in the legal book to delay matters and add to their hourly rates (all paid for by the State).

2. Every accusation made against the squatter can be appealed against. Even if the judge rejects the appeal , the squatter can appeal against that judgement , and so on and on.......  The squatter, if he is really determined, can continue to appeal to a higher court (but he might have to pay his own legal costs for that part).  Our tenant squatter attempted to appeal to the 'Supreme Court Of Spain'  but failed because of a process error . If he'd got through their 'front door process'  we would have had to wait another 5-7 years for them to even look at our eviction case.

3. During the case , a squatter might produce fraudulent documentation to strengthen his case (possibly a fraudulent lease contract ). The courts do not seem to check or question documentation that is presented to the court and it will be up to your own lawyer to object (which could lengthen the court case even further).

4. During the court case , the squatter will sack his lawyer so that he doesn't have a legal representative . He will make all sorts of excuses to warrant the dismissing of his lawyer . This will delay the court proceedings for another 10 working days while the Court requests the Spanish Legal Bar to recruit another on their 'waiting list' .   Our tenant sacked his lawyer 4  times during the court case and the judges didn't bat an eyelid.

5. Then nearer the end of the eviction process the squatter will claim 'vulnerability '  due to injury or sickness or other mental ailment .  The judge will have no option but to ask the Social Services to intervene and interview the squatter.  If they agree that the squatter is vulnerable they have 1 month to provide him with some alternative assistance (ie. maybe temporary accommodation, etc).

6. Once the Judge has ordered the eviction it goes to the SCNE (some court office that arranges for court officials to enact the eviction). We waited 4  months for them to arrange an eviction date.

7. Then be prepared for the SCNE to cancel the eviction at the last moment (for a plethora of reasons that the squatter and his lawyer know how to exploit).  Our eviction was cancelled 2 times with a total wait of over 6 months . The 2nd eviction attempt found that our tenant was subletting our property to a young lady and son therefore the SCNE could not evict them. The 3rd eviction had an African man staying in our flat and he wouldn't leave so the SCNE called the Guardia to force him out and legally evict our tenant.

I recommend that you be there when the eviction happens to ensure that once your locksmith changes the lock  (it will cost you 100 euros if you are replacing it with a standard cylinder lock) he hands you all the sets of keys. If you are not there and there is the slightest doubt concerning the location of your flat , the SCNE will cancel the eviction.  If you are travelling to Spain , you might have many wasted journeys (and expense) if the SCNE evictions are cancelled.

Note that a squatter might leave the property before the eviction date and be replaced by another squatter in which case you may need to start from scratch again on the legal side.

My recommendation if you are going down the legal route is to proceed with the Criminal route rather than the Civil route . It might take 2  years and there is the chance that the squatter could be jailed and have a criminal sentence against his name (but sadly I've also heard stories of judges just handing out a 200-300 euro fine).

Have you contacted the Police ?  There is something called 'Alert Cops' which is a mobile application that can be used to inform the local police that squatters have entered your property. It's in English so that might be something you might wish to do and maybe strike lucky and the police might kick them out (but I doubt it). Normally the Police will only visit if the owner or a representative of the owner is at the premises  or if a burglar alarm has gone off.  My general experience is that Police cannot be bothered and they never reply back to my emails (especially if they are in English).

I can recommend a solicitor if you wish but be prepared that this could cost you many thousands of euros. Our 1st solicitor made a terrible process error in our 1st eviction attempt through the courts and it cost us 4700 euros having to pay the tenants court costs and their free-legal aid lawyer rates (so please be careful about picking the right lawyer). We still haven't paid it because we ran out of money so there is a threat that an embargo will be levied on our flat and it will be auctioned off . The tenant owes us 11k but is claiming he has no assets so unfortunately he gets off scot free . Also if he loses the case and does not earn enough salary to meet some threshold , his free legal aid costs (which he's obliged to pay if he loses the case) gets annulled after 3 years. We have paid 1k  lawyer and court costs appealing against the threat of an embargo asking for the 4.7k to be offset against the 11k he owes us (still awaiting the judgement after 8 months but you can bet that the judge will not accept our appeal).

So there you have the legal route which is 'not fit for purpose' and utterly biased towards the squatter.

I have heard that amendments to the squatter eviction law was made on the 15th September where one might evict and prosecute them for 'Trespassing/Burglary' . I'm unsure whether this law is actually being enacted through the Courts but a good lawyer will know.

Here are some links that might help you.

Instructions how to deal with squatters - Terrazas del Rodeo (terrazas-del-rodeo.com)

Squatters in Spain, and how to avoid adverse possession (spanishpropertyinsight.com)

There is however other ways but not entirely legal but are mentioned in you-tube videos (where you 'out-squat ' the squatter).

If it happens to us again we are not planning to pursue the legal route and we may have to hire a negotiating company to get them out (might cost us 500-1000 euros but it will be cheaper).

Desokupa tu Vivienda con FueraOkupas. Empresa de Desocupación

Really sorry to see this post. Squatters are rife in many parts of Spain. I'm the President of our community and have witnessed first hand these terrible situations.

I have to agree with Keith's very detailed account. One of my English owners had exactly the same experience and it took 4 years to get them out. In actual fact the squatters did leave about a month before the final eveiction date, but he had to wait for the final eviction date when the guardia and locksmith arrived. He could not go in before even though it was clear they had moved on.

Another owner who was Spanish had a similar issue he let the proerty to a tenant, she turned out to be a prostitute and drug user. After a row with her she moved out but didn't reliquish her tenancy, so yet again he was not allowed to enter his own property and had to go down the eviction process, which cost him 5,000€. She then moved into an apartment owned by my vice President, also Spanish. I tried in vain to tell him not to go ahead in light of the previous situation. She caused no end of trouble, damaged other owners cars because they asked her to move her car as it was blocking their ability to move their cars. He downfall was she had a young child who she locked in the apartment when she went out to work. Social services were involved and the child was removed and her family took the woman away. My VP got his apartmant back without cost, only to complain to me she had smashed the furniture. I just replied I tried to advise you!!!! You should have taken notice of what I told you and other conversations you had with her previous landlord.

We have also had squatters in the Bank owned properties. Last winter 2 lots moved into 2 apartments and damaged doors and security gates. They have now left and moved on, however the banks are very slow to act and during covid the Spanish government decreed that squatters could not be evicted. I'm not sure whether this has been retracted but as Keith told you get a lawyer who specialises in evictions of Squatters.

When you eventually get them out but either using a company( heavy mob) or the courts. You will need to improve your Security. Extra locks on doors, grills, shutters and windows.  An alarm system. Have outside lights on timers, a couple of planters with looked after plants, looking healthy.

Anything that make the place looks as if it has a presence of being lived in. I wish you all the luck and let us know how you get on.

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