Radiators - Page 2

Classic man wrote on Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:00am:

I agree wood burners are excellent for warming you house but they are also excellent at making work and mess.

You have to carry logs, jump up and down every 20 minutes or so to feed the thing and in the morning clean up all the dust and empty the ash pan.  I have kicked mine into touch and it's now for sale.
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I have replaced it with a pellet burner (yet to be fired up).  Yes, I still need to carry the pellets (cleaner than logs) but there will be no dust and very little ash. There is a duct that also heats the adjacent room. Like a wood burner it does not heat the whole house.

The best way to heat a whole house is either individual electric radiators if you have sufficient power or a radiator system like we have back home.  A mains gas supply is pretty much essential for that, you can get a pellet boiler but they are very expensive. Reservable aircon is expensive to run.  A heat pump system can also heat water for radiators but are very expensive to buy and the outside fan unit can be noisy and put vibration into the walls.

Kelvin1960 wrote on Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:45am:

Our combi-boiler/radiator system uses propane (with 2 banks of 6 11kg bottles). This arrangement (or variations if it) is common. Our system uses around 3 bottles/week in the depths of winter, or 1 bottle/month during the warm months (heating, hot water, gas hob).

34kg bottles are also available.

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We plan to switch to a 1000 litre bulk tank this year.

There are some rules around safe storage of gas, so space/access is needed.

The 11kg bottles weigh, typically, around 18kg when full. The 34kg bottles need to be wheeled on a purpose-made trolley, and must be connected up by the supplier.

Classic man wrote on Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:58am:

Yes, a combi is a good solution as well.  As they are fairly heavy on gas, bottles are not the best solution so a bulk tank is the answer if you don't have mains gas.

I have heard that you need to shop around the gas companies to get the best deal as prices vary a lot regarding tank rental.

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If you do this, would you post the results of your searches please?  Just out of interest.

Kelvin1960 wrote on Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:42pm:

Yes, will do. We planned to do the changeover from bottles to the bulk tank last year (as part of a renovation project), but Covid slowed everything down. The renovation work is now in progress, and a duct will be laid to enable the bulk tank (and necessary pipework) to be installed later.

The bulk tank will be cheap to install (around 400-500 Eu), but I don't know the gas costs/rental costs yet. As we get older, and as we are having renovation work, the switch to a bulk tank is a no-brainer for us....

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FWIW, we found running the 11kg bottles to be fine, but I didn't think through all the issues of handling the tanks. I had an enclosure constructed (for the 12 bottles) that met all the safety requirements, just a simple lean-to arrangement, but I should have fitted a hinge-up lid to make them easier to connect. Under normal circumstances the CEPSA guy connected them, but during COVID I did it myself. Once we decided to switch to a bulk tank, I didn't bother to modify the enclosure. Our gas costs (heating, hot water, gas hob) is around 430-450 Eu/year using the 11kg bottles. We are full time residents, and we aren't stingy. A delivery of 6 bottles generally lasts 2 weeks in the depths of winter. Once the heating goes off, 6 bottles lasts >6 months. There has never been any problem with deliveries.

The 11kg tanks are price-controlled. I have neighbours who use the 34kg tanks, and they pay significantly more per kg for their gas (same supplier). 

Back to the OP's original question, the merits of any heating solution depend on how many months each year you intend to live in a house. 

Although a bulk tank has costs, there is no standing charge to pay for mains gas.

Classic man wrote on Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:58am:

Yes, a combi is a good solution as well.  As they are fairly heavy on gas, bottles are not the best solution so a bulk tank is the answer if you don't have mains gas.

I have heard that you need to shop around the gas companies to get the best deal as prices vary a lot regarding tank rental.

Read more...

If you do this, would you post the results of your searches please?  Just out of interest.

Kelvin1960 wrote on Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:41am:

We have now agreed our bulk propane contract.

The price (today) for propane in 11kg bottles is Eu 1.23/kg ... https://preciogas.com/instalaciones/glp/propano/precio

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Our price is Eu 1.48/kg (25c/Kg more).

The bulk tank rental and maintenance is "free". 

I don't have our exact annual consumption numbers to hand, but is in around 400-500 Kg (approximately 800-1000 litres). So, if we use 400-500 Kg/year, we will be paying  Eu 100-125 per year for the service, over a 10 year term (Eu 8.33 - 10.42 per month). This is cheaper than our standing charge for electricity.

Naturally, fuel prices vary over time.

Classic man wrote on Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:01pm:

Many thanks for the info, very good to have some comparisons.

I have just put a pellet fire into the lounge with a duct to the dining room next door, so I'll not be going the gas route at this time. The unfortunate bit re the pellet fire is that the bedrooms will still be icy cold in winter.

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When we were in the UK we had a 2te bulk tank in the garden (not Calor as they were too dear) and a big freestanding boiler (45kW) in an outhouse.The price to refill the tank was a colossal 13p/lit !!!!!!!!!!   Seems a long time ago.

Here, my Jeep runs on LPG (propane) and that is about 60cts/lit to refill.  Half the price of petrol and minimal pollution.

Kelvin1960 wrote on Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:44pm:

We had 3 UK cars on LPG (2 Volvos and a Mercedes). They avoided the London congestion charge. But our mileage in Spain doesn't really justify the installation costs.

When we were first here in 2017, we had the Mercedes with us. Repsol seemed to be the only LPG supplier, but I have noticed LPG tanks springing up in Cepsa garages as well recently....

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Good luck with the pellet burner. I think they should be OK for 2 storey homes (the heat goes up the stairs ?), but our home is a bungalow ... so not suitable for us I think.