Can I install lighting from the UK in a apartment in Spain - Is the wiring compatable etc. - Page 3

marcliff wrote on Wed Mar 13, 2024 12:42pm:

Of course it's safe. It's just that it's a different system and some people can't get their head around the difference between radial and ring mains wiring. UK ring main wiring was only brought in after the war when there was a shortage of copper and ring mains can use thinner gauge. Very few cou...

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...ntries use this and prefer the radial wiring with individual circuits.

Just different, not dangerous. 

Classic man wrote on Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:25pm:

The electrics may be to an EU standard but it falls well short of British Standards and IEE Regulations.  

Firstly there is little or no respect with regards to polarity of the wiring.  In the UK the RH pin of a socket is ALWAYS  the Live pin. In Spain it can be either. The reason being that there is a switch that isolates whatever is plugged in. There is never a switch on a Shuko socket and...

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... the plug can be put in either way round.  Appliances that have a switch on them have it in the Live wire so if the polarity is reversed the appliance you think is disconnected is LIVE.

Same with lamp holders. The bottom connection in an ES lampholder is the Live connection. If connected the other way round the outer or threaded, part becomes live and can be touched without too much difficulty.  In a BC lampholder both connections are at the bottom and impossible to touch.

You often see table lamps with metal parts connected to those ridiculous 2 pin plugs.  Again metal parts cannot be earthed and can become live. Just not possible with a 13A plug.  Everything with exposed metal parts should be earthed.  You can use a 2 pin plug on something that is double insulated but don't mess with the lampholder when it's plugged in.  This is pretty basic stuff.

The idea of putting the switch in any appliance in the Live wire is to prevent parts of said appliance remaining Live when you think it's turned off.

In the UK RCD breakers are not connected in circuits feeding fridges and freezers.  This is to prevent them thawing out should it trip unnecessarily as they often do.  I speak from experience here as we lost a freezer when the RCD tripped when we were in the UK.  The smell when we came back was horrific as was the mess. The freezers are now wired as per UK regs.

I could go on for pages but this is a short version why I think Spanish electrics are a load of crap and not fit for purpose.  Take this from someone with a Degree in Electrical Engineering and a lot of experience wiring buildings.  There is no safer system in the world than the UK system, which is why it's used round the world.

Classic man wrote on Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:25pm:

The electrics may be to an EU standard but it falls well short of British Standards and IEE Regulations.  

Firstly there is little or no respect with regards to polarity of the wiring.  In the UK the RH pin of a socket is ALWAYS  the Live pin. In Spain it can be either. The reason being that there is a switch that isolates whatever is plugged in. There is never a switch on a Shuko socket and...

Read more...

... the plug can be put in either way round.  Appliances that have a switch on them have it in the Live wire so if the polarity is reversed the appliance you think is disconnected is LIVE.

Same with lamp holders. The bottom connection in an ES lampholder is the Live connection. If connected the other way round the outer or threaded, part becomes live and can be touched without too much difficulty.  In a BC lampholder both connections are at the bottom and impossible to touch.

You often see table lamps with metal parts connected to those ridiculous 2 pin plugs.  Again metal parts cannot be earthed and can become live. Just not possible with a 13A plug.  Everything with exposed metal parts should be earthed.  You can use a 2 pin plug on something that is double insulated but don't mess with the lampholder when it's plugged in.  This is pretty basic stuff.

The idea of putting the switch in any appliance in the Live wire is to prevent parts of said appliance remaining Live when you think it's turned off.

In the UK RCD breakers are not connected in circuits feeding fridges and freezers.  This is to prevent them thawing out should it trip unnecessarily as they often do.  I speak from experience here as we lost a freezer when the RCD tripped when we were in the UK.  The smell when we came back was horrific as was the mess. The freezers are now wired as per UK regs.

I could go on for pages but this is a short version why I think Spanish electrics are a load of crap and not fit for purpose.  Take this from someone with a Degree in Electrical Engineering and a lot of experience wiring buildings.  There is no safer system in the world than the UK system, which is why it's used round the world.

Marilyn22 wrote on Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:25pm:

Is it possible to change a single two prong es  socket with a twin es socket and also a twin es socket that also has a usb uncluded?

Just about to move to Spain but there never seems to be sufficient sockets and I don't particularly want to have a lot of extension cords around.

marcliff wrote on Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:37pm:

Just that last bit if I may. Where is used all around the world? Apart from places with a UK connection, like Ireland, Cyprus, Malta etc, no one else uses it. They don't use it in USA, anywhere in Europe, anywhere in the Far East except maybe Hong Kong. Very few use ring mains and none use the 3 ...

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...pin plug like they do in UK and those other countries.

Sorry but I have lived in Australia, Cyprus, USA, Canada, Germany, Mexico, Belize and now Spain. None of them use ring mains and they all, apart from Australia which uses non fused 3 pin plugs (no fuses necessary in radial mains) all use 2 pin plugs. Even on cruises and visiting many places including Japan and most Caribbean countries, none use the system you say is used all around the world. That is simply not true. 

Americans, in particular, think it is bat crazy and dangerous. Plus, of all the table lamps and bedside lamps I had in UK, none were required to be earthed. 

Classic man wrote on Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:24pm:

Of course the English system will be used in our territories.  I have seen it in Dubai and various places in the Middle East. 

On cruise ships they usually offer UK, American and EU sockets in the rooms, but these are wired with a phase on each pin which would give 110 v between a pin and earth (safer that way)  they use two phases to give the 230V. For the American sockets they use one phase and neutral thus giving...

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... 110V.  

You should have noticed that even American outlets have an Earth connection these days and also that one of the two flat pins is larger so they only go in one way.  The wall sockets will accept both two and three pin plugs but only one way round.  On older installations the plugs fit either way round as both pins are the same size.

It seems that the Americans are coming round to our way of doing things.

As I said earlier table lamps can be used on two pin plugs it they are fully insulated.  If any part of the lamp is metal it MUST be earthed. It's up to you if you want to take the risk.  No one will come knocking on your door and ask to see your table lamps, but if someone gets electrocuted the HSE will be asking why it wasn't earthed.  Even in Spain lamps containing metal parts are earthed.

Here in this house every plug is marked to show which pin is which so that the live wire is the one that contains the switch. Thus the lamp base/appliance is dead when switched off.

 When your wife gets electrocuted in a brand new house it's time to do something about it. I am not paranoid but very careful not to get a repeat.  I just don't trust Spanish electrcians.

marcliff wrote on Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:28pm:

You obviously have no idea how radial circuits work. Sorry, but you're totally wrong. Radial the electrickery goes round in a loop so it doesn't matter which pin goes where. It's the system used everywhere. Marking the pins is simply paranoia. 

Marilyn22 wrote on Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:25pm:

Is it possible to change a single two prong es  socket with a twin es socket and also a twin es socket that also has a usb uncluded?

Just about to move to Spain but there never seems to be sufficient sockets and I don't particularly want to have a lot of extension cords around.

Classic man wrote on Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:54pm:

You have not said what sort of two pin socket you want to change and if it is in the wall.  It depends on what size the wires feeding the socket actually are. They could be 1.0mm,  1.5mm or even 2.5mm but that's unlikely.

If in the wall there will be a box behind the socket. If you are adding a bigger outlet or even two plus a USB outlet you will need to accommodate a much bigger unit, so some work will need to be done to accept the bigger back box....

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...

If you can reply with a picture of what you already have and what you want to change to, I can be more constructive.

Marilyn22 wrote on Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:02pm:

I'm not out in Spain currently but the sockets in my property are I believe typical of Spanish two round pin points.

In the UK I have a double socket that also has two usb sockets included. I would like to replicate this in Spain just not sure the Spanish electrical will accommodate this? Don't mind if a bigger space needs to be cut out of the wall to enable a larger back box to be fitted.ystwant to know if it'...

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...s possible?