Air Conditioning in closed areas etc and aircraft? - Page 2

Dagurney wrote on Mon May 25, 2020 12:04pm:

ok but it is 'science'.......we are at the stage when infection is so low we should concentrate on the vulnerable in our society - the chances of someone under 70, who is not obease or having sever medicl conditions dying from this disease is less likely than being struck by lightning twice!

Mrmike wrote on Tue May 26, 2020 12:12am:

Oops over 70, 20kgs over weight Oh dear.

Unfortunately as china is seeing now, the one that got away!!, How many infected came to Spain mainly from Italy, 12, 15? That has become 235000 here. New infections today 130+  thats at least 10 future dead I don´t think 10 people were struck by lightning twice today in Spain. I could be w...

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...rong, I don´t follow the Spanish press.

We have decided we will not eat indoors at any locale or take any flights and be very careful shopping. Apart from the bullshit Infected to dead is about <10 to 1 over all ages. Obviously we are in an even lower ratio group.

Anyway we will do what we want to do just as others are doing their own thing too!

Stevec61 wrote on Tue May 26, 2020 10:23am:

Rather sweeping statement that!! So anybody under 70 who is not obese and doesn’t have severe medical conditions is more likely to die from being hit by lightning than Covid-19 - if they catch the virus!!??

Try telling that to the numerous families of healthcare workers, bus drivers, and general public who have sadly died...many of whom were young and fit & healthy before catching the infection....

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Just because things are slowly getting back on track, people need to remember that this virus is still out there, still infecting & killing people (of any age and health condition) and people need to stay on the guard as much as ever to both protect themselves and stop the spread

Dagurney wrote on Tue May 26, 2020 6:19pm:

Ageree that we should be careful and wary of this virus and do all we can to stop spread of the infection but the statistics don't lie - we are doing what we do to protect vlulnerable groups who are at a much much higher risk than the remainder of the commuity.

Dodster wrote on Wed May 27, 2020 11:11am:

Agree Dagurney but one of the frustrating things about this disease is that folks either don't want to, or are unable to, look at and understand the more detailed statistics underlying the headline numbers. Even the BBC news leads with "total number of deaths in UK now reaches 33,000 an increase ...

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...of 250 since yesterday " which although shocking numbers is hardly informative. It is the trends in daily infection rates and deaths that should be of wider interest to the public because that will determine the return of our basic liberties not absolute numbers.

And your point on demographics is also highly relevant but, if one were cynical, an inconvenient truth for governments and media who wish to promote the idea of "we're all in this together" regardless of the glaring differences in mortality rates that could drive a much more segmented and targeted approach. In UK 89% of all deaths are 65+ and 40% of all deaths are 85+. It is also believed that only 1% of deaths occurred where there was no underlying condition ( for disclosure purposes I do have underlying conditions).

So everyone will need to make their own minds up on whether the respective governments policies have been commensurate with the risks to public health. Personally, I think there are questions around this. One would be whether the huge disruption to education through (disputed  - 1 v 2 metre) social distancing measures will have a material impact on the R number. In other words what would the likely impact on R be if schools returned to normal. Another question would be that there are 5.5 million people in Scotland of which 28 are in intensive care with Covid 19. Whilst this is obviously a success brought about by mass incarceration, nevertheless does it not make the mantra of "stay at home, protect the NHS, save lives" start to feel a bit fraudulent?

75,000 planned operations cancelled in Scotland and yet reports of huge swathes of the NHS estate still lying empty. It's a hard but indisputable fact that measures to save lives from Covid 19 have signed the death warrant for others.

Dagurney wrote on Wed May 27, 2020 4:28pm:

All good points and i think NHS will open upmore to routine business gradually but in the UK they are still planning for a second wave in hospitals - depending how the success of lifting lockdown is concerned - in some models the peak would be towards October/ November time and would be worse tha...

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...t the previous peak. But hopefully the resonable worst case scenario is not what happens and that we manage return to normality withever reducing numbers of infection. I do however think that we should be investing in strategies to protect and improve the lives of the shielded and at risk groups and with investment in testing that should be possible - the alternative might be a second crisis/ lockdown which would be devastating for morale.

Dodster wrote on Wed May 27, 2020 5:31pm:

Agreed. The investment in protecting and supporting the elderly and vulnerable could be instead of the vast amounts of money on business loans and furloughing which would be less necessary. On the point of a second wave and second lockdown, it's an open question what the societal appetite would b...

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...e for that but my guess is that it would be much more difficult to enforce in UK than this time around.

Dagurney wrote on Tue May 26, 2020 6:10pm:

The figure of  10 to 1 is of those in hospital  - it is likely that somewhare between 20 and 50% will get it asyptomatically (depending on the studies - the spreaders) and the vast majority of the rest will have cold like symptoms but not need tratment in hospital - so the figures we re...

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...ad look much much worse than they are. I havent seen the latest research but early on they thought that even over 70s had a much higher likelihood of recovery than not (80+%?). Until we have proper antibody testing we will not know the actual mortality rate of this virus.

Dodster wrote on Wed May 27, 2020 11:11am:

Agree Dagurney but one of the frustrating things about this disease is that folks either don't want to, or are unable to, look at and understand the more detailed statistics underlying the headline numbers. Even the BBC news leads with "total number of deaths in UK now reaches 33,000 an increase ...

Read more...

...of 250 since yesterday " which although shocking numbers is hardly informative. It is the trends in daily infection rates and deaths that should be of wider interest to the public because that will determine the return of our basic liberties not absolute numbers.

And your point on demographics is also highly relevant but, if one were cynical, an inconvenient truth for governments and media who wish to promote the idea of "we're all in this together" regardless of the glaring differences in mortality rates that could drive a much more segmented and targeted approach. In UK 89% of all deaths are 65+ and 40% of all deaths are 85+. It is also believed that only 1% of deaths occurred where there was no underlying condition ( for disclosure purposes I do have underlying conditions).

So everyone will need to make their own minds up on whether the respective governments policies have been commensurate with the risks to public health. Personally, I think there are questions around this. One would be whether the huge disruption to education through (disputed  - 1 v 2 metre) social distancing measures will have a material impact on the R number. In other words what would the likely impact on R be if schools returned to normal. Another question would be that there are 5.5 million people in Scotland of which 28 are in intensive care with Covid 19. Whilst this is obviously a success brought about by mass incarceration, nevertheless does it not make the mantra of "stay at home, protect the NHS, save lives" start to feel a bit fraudulent?

75,000 planned operations cancelled in Scotland and yet reports of huge swathes of the NHS estate still lying empty. It's a hard but indisputable fact that measures to save lives from Covid 19 have signed the death warrant for others.

Mrmike wrote on Thu May 28, 2020 9:28am:

1 to 10 is the ratio of Infected to Dead, Nothing to do with Hospitals This morning total infected 236,000, Dead 27,118 so it is actually closer to 1 in 9 as of this morning in Spain.