Is Boris right? - Page 3

Thank you all for your comments. The main driver behind my question was to understand (1) what alternatives there might be to Boris's plans; from those who felt he was wrong and (2) why Boris is right to ignore the advice from the CMO/CSO/SAGE, and the increasing incidence of the virus in places like Catalonia and the USA; from those that agreed with him.

Having read all the posts, it seems most people feel relaxing restrictions is inevitable as lockdown can't last indefinitely. But whilst some express concern about the speed/extent of Boris's relaxation of restrictions, those who support his plans have offered little explanation as to why he is right to ignore the experts. 

Personally I believe there is a great deal still unknown about this virus. Emerging evidence is showing the virus is still spreading at pace when restrictionsare relaxed too far, is affecting younger age groups in increasing numbers, and is having a wider & longer term affect on those infected than was first thought, and is not providing immunity to those who recover. For these reason and more, whilst I agree restrictions should be relaxed, I am concerned that Boris's plans go too far too fast and risk the 2nd wave/tens of thousands more deaths that SAGE are envisaging.

Hi,

   I have not been keeping up-to-date recently having been in Spain for the last few days but I must have missed the news that the government is ignoring SAGE advice. If you are referring to the winter risk of a second covid phase I don't see what the easing of restrictions now have to do with that. The UK situation is being monitored and any rise in R rate is being addressed as necessary. The situation in Catalonia is something to be concerned about and to watch, but the Spanish government do not feel it necessary to change the rules for the whole country and I would agree with that, so why would the UK? Just about every country in Europe is going through the same process the UK and they are all seeing localised outbreaks, like the UK they are carrying on with their plans to get the economy back as the alternative is probably worse in the long term.

   Whilst you are concerned that the government plans go to far, to fast, most business leaders do not think they are going far enough or fast enough. The media is always going on about why does this no get opened/relaxed, then when the rules are relaxed they say, why did the government do that. To me they are taking a middle ground and getting it broadly right.

 The think the US situation is totally different to the UK, it varies greatly across the US and is to some degree linked to how the various states control their own medical services, something like the UK 4 countries split but by 50. Personally I don't think we can draw any comparisons with the States.

Rgds,

Aitch. 

I really feel for the leaders of every country who would be in their shoes?, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't, can't win.

Hi Aitch,

The following article may be of help re the scientific advice deviating from the Government position.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/november-lockdown-social-distancing-whitty-vallance_uk_5f11c337c5b6d14c33668ba3

As for national rule changes, I haven't suggested that. But I do believe that when a government is acting against the expert advice of its professionals, people have a right to question that decision and expect transparency from their government as to why. 

As for the US situation, yes it varies, but the parallel is clear to see: in states where restrictions have been rellaxed in order to facilitate reopening business the infectionrate has surged resulting in the highest one day increase in the world. This appears to be a path we are in many respects following,  which repeated here could lead to the up to ~120k additional deaths SAGE are predicting. 

Paul 

Reading this thread is hilarious

"Boris is great & he knows what he's doing because he's Prime Minister so he must be OK!"

Right ho then...The guy got sacked twice from jobs on newspapers for lying. In the early 90s.

He's long been known to be a chancer who gets by on his connections. (And latterly dirty Russian money.)

There's a whole other side to how he became PM & hitched his horse to the Brexit wagon at the last minute. (Wrote 2 pieces both pro & anti Brexit for the Telegraph & published the latter one when his handlers instructed him to do so.)

Google Matthew & Sarah Elliot. Seriously...do it. You'll be amazed.)

And look up Dominic Cummings ( the UK's de facto PM) .& research how he spent 3 years in Moscow in the mid 90s.

And then look up the Barclay Brothers.And how they control the UK's written press & love not paying tax.

And google how the UK's hedge-fund managers lumped on Brexit to make a killing.

Jacob Rees-Mogg actually moved his company from London to the Republic of Ireland to avoid getting screwed by Brexit and yet he's one of its most vocal proponents.

Seriously...if you're lucky enough to live in Spain, FFS...shut the fck up about Brexit & how well the Tories are handling the Covid19 outbreak because those of us still stuck in the UK really, really don't appreciate your ill-informed opinions from the Costa Blanca.

If you think "Boris" is doing a good job, go to your gammon bars, drink your John Smiths at 4 quid a pint, have a good night talking absolute slocklobbs about UK politics but please, leave us out of it.

The UK's screwed & you're lucky enough to be out of it (if you're legally residing in Spain, if not, get ready for a big tax bill) but many of us aren't over there yet.

Show some intelligence & humility please.

Balanced and constructive response, making lots of wrong assumptions but as with the rest of your post, don't let the truth spoil a delusional story. 

Rgds,

Aitch/

Hi Ray,

       I fail to see what is courageous about a off topic rant on a website with a bit of personal abuse thrown in.  It says more  to me about you that you admire the rant, with the abuse, and think it is "courageous". Like many threads on the site it goes off on a tangent to what was being discussed and links back to Brexit which was never in any of the posts. 

Rgds,

Aitch

The link below provides an interesting chronology of the UK Government handling of the Coronavirus pandemic. 

FYI it's by an independent crowdfunded group called Led By Donkeys, who made a name for themselves putting up satirical billboards highlighting the government's changing responses to Brexit. But nobody has ever suggested their content is false or inaccurate. 

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1282915698604376064?s=20

Hi Ray,

 to quote from Stan's mail:

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Seriously...if you're lucky enough to live in Spain, FFS...shut the fck up about Brexit & how well the Tories are handling the Covid19 outbreak because those of us still stuck in the UK really, really don't appreciate your ill-informed opinions from the Costa Blanca.

If you think "Boris" is doing a good job, go to your gammon bars, drink your John Smiths at 4 quid a pint, have a good night talking absolute slocklobbs about UK politics but please, leave us out of it.

------------

No-one even mentioned Brexit before this and as for the FFS, shut the fck up, etc, then I must have a different opinion to abuse than you do.

Rgds,

Aitch.

I’ve listened to this report and am reminded that I was aware of all of these reports but felt the need to support the government based on the fact that we were living in a time of fear and felt that our leaders were trying their best.  I now believe that their best was not up to scratch. In fact, their leadership was inferior. A computer would have guided us much better. We don’t need highly paid politicians in such a situation. We need a good computer programmer to feed all daily information into the computer and follow its findings. Mistakes.....dreadful mistakes and errors of judgement.  If we looked at every other country’s way of handling this pandemic, would any of them have been any better?  what lessons will be learnt from this? Probably none. What will happen in the winter months?  More than likely the same as before.

Any suggestions what we should do to guide our leaders?   They need advice.