Moaning brits - Page 3

Hi Ade,

Nothing stopping you driving across borders, but Portugal is in Schengen too, so you'll still only be allowed to stay a maximum of 90 days in 180.  Your passport will be stamped at the first country where you enter the Schengen travel zone - that's why I always tell people driving down through France to remember to start the 90 days count from when they arrive on French soil.  When you leave Schengen, the country you leave from will be able to see how long you've been in the Schengen zone.

Kind regards, 

Kim

Hi Kim

Oh blimey, it gets worse ! I didn't realise they stamp your passport..

I sold my own house in Beverley, England a few years ago. Then lived in Portugal. Then I bought a small place in Torrevieja to renovate just over a year ago, before the lockdown. I don't know what to do next ! Many thanks for your informative replies Kim, much appreciated.

Regards

Hi Ade,

Are you legally resident in Portugal or Spain, i.e. do you have a certificate of residency in either country?

Kind regards, 

Kim

Hi Kim

I do have some sort of certificate from Portugal, not quite sure what it is ? Maybe it could be helpful..

My X is Portuguese..

Hi Ade,

If you are legally and permanently resident in an EU country - in your case, either Portugal or Spain - under Schengen rules you can spend up to 90 days in a rolling 180 days in another EU country, returning to your country of residence once the 90 days is up (or sooner if you choose).  However, if you're a UK citizen and not legally resident in either Portugal or Spain, you will need to return to the UK once the 90 days is up.  Hence the significance of my question and why, as a non-EU resident, you will have your UK passport stamped at border control when you enter Schengen.  (In fact, since Brexit, many UK citizens, legally resident in Spain, have still had their passports stamped, despite showing their TIE residency card.)

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/indexamp_en.htm#non-eu-citizen

Kind regards, 

Kim

Try and get back with her.

Kimmy

from Article 6 here https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32016R0399&from=EN#d1e951-1-1 the only limitation in the Schengen Area applies to 3rd country national 'entering' the Area,  

Entry conditions for third-country nationals

"1. For intended stays on the territory of the Member States of a duration of no more than 90 days in any 180-day period, which entails considering the 180-day period preceding each day of stay, the entry conditions for third-country nationals shall be the following:"

The Schengen provisions abolish checks at EU's internal borders, while providing a single set of rules for controls at the external borders applicable to those who enter the Schengen area for a short period of time (up to 90 days).

"The border-free Schengen Area guarantees free movement to more than 400 million EU citizens, along with non-EU nationals living in the EU or visiting the EU as tourists, exchange students or for business purposes (anyone legally present in the EU). Free movement of persons enables every EU citizen to travel, work and live in an EU country without special formalities. Schengen underpins this freedom by enabling citizens to move around the Schengen Area without being subject to border checks."

I think from this that a [legal] resident of an EU country (not just Schengen Area residents), has the right to freedom of movement and in the Area provided they stick to this rules.

This is the Irish view

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/european_government/european_union/freedom_of_movement_in_the_eu.html, 

reading these together with residency in the Schengen Area or EU passport, you have to report to the authorities if you want to say past 90 days (nothing stated about in a year or 180days).

There is no stipulation about returning to the same country, so you can continue your travels and having visited a second country you can return to the first.

In our case we are UK residents, and have treaty right through an Irish passport, we can travel to  France (spending up to 90 days), then onto Spain (spending up to 90 days)  and return via France, and again spend up to 90days.

I would appreciate this confirmed, or with documentation/proof why this is not the case.

Hi

Yes she sort of hopes that but there are many valid reasons why I should not if possible..

I thought Ade was English, not Irish? 🤔

This was used to highlight the rules that apply to persons with residency or citizenship

you stated "If you are legally and permanently resident in an EU country - in your case, either Portugal or Spain - under Schengen rules you can spend up to 90 days in a rolling 180 days in another EU country, returning to your country of residence once the 90 days is up (or sooner if you choose)."

That not the rules, there is no need to return to your country of residence after 90 days, and no reference to 180 days, if the unknown document issued by the Portugal is residency then  Ade as any other resident can travel freely in the Schengen Area.

My point was to clarify the freedom of movement rules for residents and EU citizens, as there are a lot of misconceptions.

180 days only applies to any person who do not come into the categories of citizen, legal residence in the EU or A person like my wife with treaty rights from her relationship to me.

If I have misunderstood the rules please explain as it is important that we all understand what we can and cannot do.