Does Spain plan to make the vaccine obligatory for everyone? - Page 3

Kimmy11 wrote on Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:26pm:

Hi MillySpain,

The difference with "obesity, alcohol"..... "or narcotics" is that they aren't 'catching' for others.  There is, of course, a precedent for passive smoking that has seen all First World countries in the world ban smoking inside public spaces.

 

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Personally, I think the Spanish government's stance is reasonable.  They aren't suggesting they will charge anti-vaxxers and Covid-deniers for any other type of treatment, but if, having refused the vaccine, they catch Covid-19 and require hospitalisation, they will be charged for the cost of that specific treatment.

Sadly, unlike the people who say "No" to the vaccine, the clinicians do not have the option to say "No" to treating them.  Why should the risk to this profession be increased further by people who refuse the vaccine?

Kind regards, 

Kim

Villas wrote on Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:41pm:

MillySpain

I do take your point. & the discussion seems to be on this thread, regarding mandatory (as yet) unproven ongoing (enforceable) medication &/or withdrawing their human rights within the health service of whichever country. 

 

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You have mentioned ["self-imposed’ illness from obesity, alcohol, smoking or narcotics"] & others have suggested their rights removed & to be withdrawn.

So where do these suggestions cease? 

With persons involved for eg: in extreme sports, driving a car, guilty of causing & receiving injurious accident, negligent or without diligence, causing harm to themselves accidentally, or indeed self-harming oneself etc etc. Do they have human rights to be treated? Surely yes.

My opinion only.

V

MillySpain wrote on Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:13pm:

V!

I don’t suggest such discrimination at all! I merely used those examples to try to leverage a point.  And maybe make some of the super-smug and very verbal vaxed (versus the quiet and kind vaxed) think about what they’re saying. And recognise how cruel they’re being suggesting we ...

 

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...unvaxed deserve to die in a ditch. We are not being difficult or selfish, we are simply questioning this very new vaccine which has many complications and most importantly which has no history. And we’re deeply questioning the associated fast track removal of our basic human rights. Which everyone should be doing, even if the sides don’t agree on the vaccine itself just right now.

MillySpain wrote on Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:13pm:

V!

I don’t suggest such discrimination at all! I merely used those examples to try to leverage a point.  And maybe make some of the super-smug and very verbal vaxed (versus the quiet and kind vaxed) think about what they’re saying. And recognise how cruel they’re being suggesting we ...

 

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...unvaxed deserve to die in a ditch. We are not being difficult or selfish, we are simply questioning this very new vaccine which has many complications and most importantly which has no history. And we’re deeply questioning the associated fast track removal of our basic human rights. Which everyone should be doing, even if the sides don’t agree on the vaccine itself just right now.

Kimmy11 wrote on Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:08am:

Hi MillySpain,

Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone on this forum say that the "unvaxed deserve to die in a ditch" 😳

 

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You do have a choice - you can have the vaccine, or stand by your principles and deal with whatever consequences that may include.  Even if Spain does decide to charge the unvaccinated for their treatment should they catch the virus, I think that gives you a better choice than the front line medical staff who don't have the right to refuse you treatment and risk catching it themselves.

Kind regards, 

Kim

MillySpain wrote on Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:59pm:

The vaccines are quoted as ‘experimental’ by their own makers until at the very least 2023. And who on this forum normally accepts to be the guinea pig for fresh-from-the-lab drugs? I’m guessing very few. So it’s unfair to treat all the other (self-imposed) illnesses and not Covid, when t...

 

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...he only current solution for Covid is still very unsatisfactory and is lethal for some. 

aitchc1401 wrote on Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:35am:

Hi Milly,

        if you look at the covid statistics for the UK you will see that the number of deaths versus number of infections are many multiples less following the vaccination rollout.  Add in also the fact that covid hospitalisations are dramatically reduced, freeing up hosp...

 

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...ital time to treat other ailments.

   That cannot be described as unsatisfactory for the thousands of UK lives it has saved. Multiply that worldwide and it become many tens of thousands. 

   It maybe is your right to refuse a vaccination but don't ignore the effectiveness of covid vaccines worldwide.

Aitch.

Villas wrote on Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:55am:

Perhaps an unbiased opinion on this matter: 

["Variants like Delta are “currently winning the race against vaccines” said the World Health Organization (WHO) chief, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus on Wednesday"]

 

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https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/07/1095432

V

Villas wrote on Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:42am:

["Although attention has focused on vaccine efficacy and comparing the reduction of the number of symptomatic cases, fully understanding the efficacy and effectiveness of vaccines is less straightforward than it might seem. Depending on how the effect size is expressed, a quite different picture ...

 

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...might emerge"]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00069-0/fulltext

& as above post:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/07/1095432

V