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Passport stamping and/or scanning?

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:52am
9 replies296 views6 members subscribed
Kimmy11

Kimmy11

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Hi all,

There have been two or three threads in the last couple of weeks about the inconsistency at border controls when it comes to stamping the passports of UK citizens who are either resident or non-resident of Spain (or other EU countries), when entering or exiting the country.

I think the article below, from Wednesday's edition of 'The Local' gives a useful explanation of the current situation and forthcoming changes in 2022:

"There are two changes coming up for travel in and out of the European Union that non-EU citizens such as Brits, Americans, Australians and Canadians need to be aware of.

"Due to come into force next year, two new border systems to be put in place will mean a slight change to travel in and out of the EU and Schengen zone for many. 

"Because Brussels loves jargon both of these are known by acronyms – EES and ETIAS – and although they are two separate systems they are both expected to come into effect in 2022.

"Here’s what they will change:

1: EES – Entry/Exit System

"This doesn’t change anything in terms of the visas or documents required for travel, or the rights of travellers, but it does change how the EU’s external borders are policed.

"It’s essentially a security upgrade, replacing the current system that relies on border guards with stamps with an electronic swipe in/swipe out system that will register more details such as immigration status.

"Where – this is for the EU’s external borders, so doesn’t apply if you are travelling between France and Germany for example, but would apply if you enter any EU or Schengen zone country from a non-EU country eg crossing from the UK to France or flying into Germany from the US.

"What – Instead of border guards checking passports and stamping where applicable, there will be an electronic screening of some passports at the border.

"Many airports of course already have biometric passport scanners but they’re only checking that your passport is valid and the photo matches your face.

"The EES system also calculates how long you can stay within the EU, based on your rights of residency or your 90-day allowance, and also checks whether your passport has ever been flagged for immigration offences such as overstaying a visa.

"Who – this is for non-EU nationals who are entering the EU as a visitor (rather than residents). The system scans your passport and will tell you how long you can stay for (based on the 90-allowance or the visa linked to the passport).

"What about residents? Non EU nationals who live in an EU country and have a national residency card such as a carte de séjour in France or a TIE in Spain are not affected by this, since they have the right to unlimited stays within their country of residence.

"We asked the European Commission how the system works for residents and were told: “The Entry/Exit System will not apply to non-EU citizens holding a residence document or a residence permit. Their personal data will not be registered in the Entry/Exit System.

“It is enough if holders of such documents present them to the border guards to prove their status.”

"Based on this response it would therefore appear that those who have a residency card for an EU country shouldn’t use the passport gates with the automatic scanners, but should instead head to the queue with an in-person guard (if available) where they can show both their passport and residency document.

"However there’s no suggestion those with permanent residency will run into future problems if they do go through the automatic gates when entering the EU because their residency status is guaranteed – as long as they can prove it with their permit. Although they could face the inconvenience of a few extra questions next time they travel.

"When – the European Commission first started consulting on this in 2016 with a planned start date of 2020. The Covid-19 pandemic disrupted that, so the provisional start date is now the “first half of 2022”.

"What does this actually change?  Apart from a more hi-tech process at the border, there are likely to be two main effects of this.

"For non-EU nationals who have residency in an EU country it could mean the end of the rather inconsistent process of passport stamping, which has been a particular issue for Brits since Brexit, with wildly inconsistent official practices by border guards that have frustrated many British residents of the EU and left them with incorrect stamps in their passports.

"For visitors to the EU this tightens up application of the 90-day rule. It doesn’t change the rule itself, but means that anyone attempting to over-stay or ‘play’ the system will instantly be spotted.

"The European Commission’s other stated aim is security, making it easier to spot security risks at the border. 


2: ETIAS – European Travel Information and Authorisation System

"This is relevant only to non-EU citizens who do not live permanently in an EU country or have a visa for an EU country.

"It therefore covers tourists, second-home owners, those on family visits or doing short-term work.

"Citizens of many non-EU countries including the UK, the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand can spend up to 90 days in every 180 in the EU or Schengen zone without needing a visa – the so-called ’90 day rule’.

"From 2022 this will change – people are still entitled to spend up to 90 days in every 180, but the process will no-longer be completely admin free.

"Instead, travellers will have to fill out an online application before they travel.

"Once issued, the authorisation lasts for three years, so frequent travellers do not need to complete a new application every time but it must be renewed every three years.

"Each application costs €7, but is free for under 18s and over 70s.

"The European Commission says that applications should be processed within minutes, but advises travellers to apply 72 hours in advance in case of delays.

"It is expected to be introduced by “the end of 2022” but there is no firm date yet.

"For anyone who has travelled to the USA recently, the system is essentially similar to the ESTA visa required for short stays."


Kind regards,
Kim
Alan mac

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:55am

Alan mac

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Joined: 28 Jun 2020

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:55am

Kimmy11 wrote on Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:52am:

Hi all,

There have been two or three threads in the last couple of weeks about the inconsistency at border controls when it comes to stamping the passports of UK citizens who are either resident or non-resident of Spain (or other EU countries), when entering or exiting the country.

I think the article below, from Wednesday's edition of 'The Local' gives a useful explanation of the current situation and forthcoming changes in 2022:

"There are two changes coming up for travel in and out of the European Union that non-EU citizens such as Brits, Americans, Australians and Canadians need to be aware of.

"Due to come into force next year, two new border systems to be put in place will mean a slight change to travel in and out of the EU and Schengen zone for many. 

"Because Brussels loves jargon both of these are known by acronyms – EES and ETIAS – and although they are two separate systems they are both expected to come into effect in 2022.

"Here’s what they will change:

1: EES – Entry/Exit System

"This doesn’t change anything in terms of the visas or documents required for travel, or the rights of travellers, but it does change how the EU’s external borders are policed.

"It’s essentially a security upgrade, replacing the current system that relies on border guards with stamps with an electronic swipe in/swipe out system that will register more details such as immigration status.

"Where – this is for the EU’s external borders, so doesn’t apply if you are travelling between France and Germany for example, but would apply if you enter any EU or Schengen zone country from a non-EU country eg crossing from the UK to France or flying into Germany from the US.

"What – Instead of border guards checking passports and stamping where applicable, there will be an electronic screening of some passports at the border.

"Many airports of course already have biometric passport scanners but they’re only checking that your passport is valid and the photo matches your face.

"The EES system also calculates how long you can stay within the EU, based on your rights of residency or your 90-day allowance, and also checks whether your passport has ever been flagged for immigration offences such as overstaying a visa.

"Who – this is for non-EU nationals who are entering the EU as a visitor (rather than residents). The system scans your passport and will tell you how long you can stay for (based on the 90-allowance or the visa linked to the passport).

"What about residents? Non EU nationals who live in an EU country and have a national residency card such as a carte de séjour in France or a TIE in Spain are not affected by this, since they have the right to unlimited stays within their country of residence.

"We asked the European Commission how the system works for residents and were told: “The Entry/Exit System will not apply to non-EU citizens holding a residence document or a residence permit. Their personal data will not be registered in the Entry/Exit System.

“It is enough if holders of such documents present them to the border guards to prove their status.”

"Based on this response it would therefore appear that those who have a residency card for an EU country shouldn’t use the passport gates with the automatic scanners, but should instead head to the queue with an in-person guard (if available) where they can show both their passport and residency document.

"However there’s no suggestion those with permanent residency will run into future problems if they do go through the automatic gates when entering the EU because their residency status is guaranteed – as long as they can prove it with their permit. Although they could face the inconvenience of a few extra questions next time they travel.

"When – the European Commission first started consulting on this in 2016 with a planned start date of 2020. The Covid-19 pandemic disrupted that, so the provisional start date is now the “first half of 2022”.

"What does this actually change?  Apart from a more hi-tech process at the border, there are likely to be two main effects of this.

"For non-EU nationals who have residency in an EU country it could mean the end of the rather inconsistent process of passport stamping, which has been a particular issue for Brits since Brexit, with wildly inconsistent official practices by border guards that have frustrated many British residents of the EU and left them with incorrect stamps in their passports.

"For visitors to the EU this tightens up application of the 90-day rule. It doesn’t change the rule itself, but means that anyone attempting to over-stay or ‘play’ the system will instantly be spotted.

"The European Commission’s other stated aim is security, making it easier to spot security risks at the border. 


2: ETIAS – European Travel Information and Authorisation System

"This is relevant only to non-EU citizens who do not live permanently in an EU country or have a visa for an EU country.

"It therefore covers tourists, second-home owners, those on family visits or doing short-term work.

"Citizens of many non-EU countries including the UK, the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand can spend up to 90 days in every 180 in the EU or Schengen zone without needing a visa – the so-called ’90 day rule’.

"From 2022 this will change – people are still entitled to spend up to 90 days in every 180, but the process will no-longer be completely admin free.

"Instead, travellers will have to fill out an online application before they travel.

"Once issued, the authorisation lasts for three years, so frequent travellers do not need to complete a new application every time but it must be renewed every three years.

"Each application costs €7, but is free for under 18s and over 70s.

"The European Commission says that applications should be processed within minutes, but advises travellers to apply 72 hours in advance in case of delays.

"It is expected to be introduced by “the end of 2022” but there is no firm date yet.

"For anyone who has travelled to the USA recently, the system is essentially similar to the ESTA visa required for short stays."


Kind regards,
Kim

Just wondering how this will affect the no EU Spode of an EU citizen who is not subject to the 90day rule but has nothing other than a marriage certificate to substantiate it?

John 52

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:21am

John 52

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Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:21am

More beurocracy and a cost ,now theres a surprise 

Kimmy11

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:49am

Kimmy11

Original Poster

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 6870

12564 helpful points

Joined: 8 Aug 2017

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:49am

Alan mac wrote on Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:55am:

Just wondering how this will affect the no EU Spode of an EU citizen who is not subject to the 90day rule but has nothing other than a marriage certificate to substantiate it?

Hi Alan mac,

The non-EU spouse of an EU citizen IS subject to the 90 day rule.  The exception to this is if they are travelling together.  Personally, I think the roll-out of these digital systems will make it easier for this type of coupling, as border control should be able to see those occasions when you were travelling together and those when you do not.  Time will tell......

Kind regards,

Kim

elinspain

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:09pm

elinspain

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Posts: 3248

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Location: La Mata

Joined: 4 May 2018

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:09pm

Hi Kim

Thanks for posting  this article.

 This info. will be invaluable to people travelling  next year but there is too much to read & remember...  ....Do you think Alex  should add it to the Tips & Guides -- as,you know these questions will be asked 100's of times (like all Brexit & Covid related stuff)?

Hope you are enjoying your UK /family visit.

Cheers

El.

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PeterPan

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:57pm

PeterPan

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Joined: 1 Aug 2020

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:57pm

ETIAS was never intended to monitor length of stays for non EU citizens. I did think that they would eventually upgrade ETIAS to do this, once they got it running (currently due end of 2022) but it now looks like they are upgrading EES instead.

EES is still a bit hit & miss with not all passports being automatically scanned and that if Spanish resident you are required to go to the manual screening (if available) and show your TIE card. 

I would hope that eventually they would have a TIE scanner, which would automatically identify your residency. Another reason to change your old residency document for the TIE perhaps?

Kimmy11

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:08pm

Kimmy11

Original Poster

Legendary helpful member

Posts: 6870

12564 helpful points

Joined: 8 Aug 2017

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:08pm

elinspain wrote on Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:09pm:

Hi Kim

Thanks for posting  this article.

 This info. will be invaluable to people travelling  next year but there is too much to read & remember...  ....Do you think Alex  should add it to the Tips & Guides -- as,you know these questions will be asked 100's of times (like all Brexit & Covid related stuff)?

Hope you are enjoying your UK /family visit.

Cheers

El.

Thanks El.  I did think about adding it to Tips and Guides, but decided it was commentary, rather than an official source.  Nevertheless, I hope it's useful advance notice of what's in store for the New Year.

Lovely to see Dad and his wife, and catch up with close friends - even the weather's been pleasantly mild.

Best wishes,

Kim

Gary

Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:39pm

Gary

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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:39pm

Hi Kim,

Thank you for posting such a self explanatory guide to EES and ETIAS due to be introduced next year.

I did read somewhere (I think it was one of the Schengen sites) that UK citizens legally resident in an EU country would not need to obtain an ETIAS for travel to and from the EU, I was was just wondering what your understanding of this was?

Regards

Gary

  

Gary

Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:41pm

Gary

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Posts: 128

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Location: Elda

Joined: 19 Mar 2016

Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:41pm

PeterPan wrote on Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:57pm:

ETIAS was never intended to monitor length of stays for non EU citizens. I did think that they would eventually upgrade ETIAS to do this, once they got it running (currently due end of 2022) but it now looks like they are upgrading EES instead.

EES is still a bit hit & miss with not all passports being automatically scanned and that if Spanish resident you are required to go to the manual screening (if available) and show your TIE card. ...

...

I would hope that eventually they would have a TIE scanner, which would automatically identify your residency. Another reason to change your old residency document for the TIE perhaps?

A TIE scanner .... now that sounds like a great idea

Kimmy11

Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:15pm

Kimmy11

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Posts: 6870

12564 helpful points

Joined: 8 Aug 2017

Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:15pm

Gary wrote on Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:39pm:

Hi Kim,

Thank you for posting such a self explanatory guide to EES and ETIAS due to be introduced next year.

I did read somewhere (I think it was one of the Schengen sites) that UK citizens legally resident in an EU country would not need to obtain an ETIAS for travel to and from the EU, I was was just wondering what your understanding of this was?

Regards

Gary

  

Hi Gary,

"The EU has confirmed that British citizens will be eligible for ETIAS when it is launched at the end of 2022. This means that UK nationals will not need a visa for short stays in Europe after Brexit, but an ETIAS visa waiver will be required."  I believe this is this the visa waiver application referred to in the original article, which will cost €7 and last 3 years.  More detail here:

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-requirements/uk-citizens

Kind regards,

Kim

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