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Moving around other EU countries

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 10:25pm
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Garyandros

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Hi all,

If you hold a post brexit nlv does this allow unrestricted travel to other European countries such as France etc?

marcliff

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 11:10pm

marcliff

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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 11:10pm

Not unrestricted. You can only leave Spain for a maximum of 6 months in any one year and a maximum of 10 months in the first 5 years. 

Once you have permanent residency after 5 years then it is virtually unrestricted. 

Darro

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:28am

Darro

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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:28am

marcliff wrote on Sat Sep 16, 2023 11:10pm:

Not unrestricted. You can only leave Spain for a maximum of 6 months in any one year and a maximum of 10 months in the first 5 years. 

Once you have permanent residency after 5 years then it is virtually unrestricted. 

All technically true however if you travelled by land did not leave the Schengen area, or in other words did not need to show or use your passport, you could in theory roam wherever you liked for as long as you liked.

That said, at the end of the day and if challenged in Spain, the onus always remains with you to prove that you had faithfully observed the NLV absence rules.

We've heard from some renewing NLV's that they have had to do that.

John123456

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:49am

John123456

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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:49am

Yes. With the non-lucrative visa you will be able to visit other EU countries for up to 3 months in every 6 month period, always respecting the entry requirements of each EU member state regarding travellers with long term visas (UE Nº 265/2010) and Covid safety measures.


marcliff

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 9:18am

marcliff

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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 9:18am

John123456 wrote on Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:49am:

Yes. With the non-lucrative visa you will be able to visit other EU countries for up to 3 months in every 6 month period, always respecting the entry requirements of each EU member state regarding travellers with long term visas (UE Nº 265/2010) and Covid safety measures.


Only when it becomes permanent after 5 years as a long term visa. Up until then the rules are for leaving Spain, not the Schengen area. 

Real Decree 557/2011 of April 2t0th and modified by Royal Decree 11/2018. .

The immigration site for Spain https://www.immigrationspain.es/en/maximum-time-outside-spain-without-losing-residency/

gives the details and shows you can't be absent outside Spain for more than 1 year (not 10 months) in the first 5 years of temporary residence.

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PeterPan

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 9:25am

PeterPan

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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 9:25am

Darro wrote on Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:28am:

All technically true however if you travelled by land did not leave the Schengen area, or in other words did not need to show or use your passport, you could in theory roam wherever you liked for as long as you liked.

That said, at the end of the day and if challenged in Spain, the onus always remains with you to prove that you had faithfully observed the NLV absence rules.
...

...

We've heard from some renewing NLV's that they have had to do that.

Does this ruling still apply? https://www.thelocal.es/20230622/spain-scraps-six-month-absence-rule-for-losing-temporary-residency#:~:text=The%20ruling%20and%20subsequent%20annulment,their%20permit%20when%20they%20return.

https://www.agmabogados.com/en/without-time-limits-the-supreme-court-protects-temporary-residence-in-spain-even-if-there-are-long-term-absences-from-the-country/

I know that they're not official links but I'm wondering if things have changed since June this year.

Herefordjack

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:02am

Herefordjack

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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:02am

Darro wrote on Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:28am:

All technically true however if you travelled by land did not leave the Schengen area, or in other words did not need to show or use your passport, you could in theory roam wherever you liked for as long as you liked.

That said, at the end of the day and if challenged in Spain, the onus always remains with you to prove that you had faithfully observed the NLV absence rules.
...

...

We've heard from some renewing NLV's that they have had to do that.

This is very true. If you drive from Spain to France, then France to Italy, and the reverse, as I did for a three week holiday in May, no-one is going to ask to see your passport. In fact, it's sometimes difficult to know you've crossed the border, unless your satnav notifies you.

Garyandros

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:03am

Garyandros

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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:03am

marcliff wrote on Sun Sep 17, 2023 9:18am:

Only when it becomes permanent after 5 years as a long term visa. Up until then the rules are for leaving Spain, not the Schengen area. 

Real Decree 557/2011 of April 2t0th and modified by Royal Decree 11/2018. .

The immigration site for Spain https://www.immigrationspain.es/en/maximum-time-outside-spain-without-losing-residency/

gives the details and shows you can't be absent outside Spain for more than 1 year (not 10 months) in the first 5 years of temporary residence.

Many thanks from all the posters. It’s a bit confusing! My take is that following brexit we are no longer in the club and have to adhere to the Spanish restrictions. However the confusion comes whereby if, I don’t hold an nlv I can apply the Schengen rules 90/180 but holding the nlv it would seem I have to give up these freedoms of movement, and have less time outside of Spain. ( 2 months per year on average ) over 5 years. To gain the right to reside means giving up freedom of movement in the first 5 years. 

Garyandros

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:11am

Garyandros

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Location: Las Ramblas Golf

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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:11am

Garyandros wrote on Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:03am:

Many thanks from all the posters. It’s a bit confusing! My take is that following brexit we are no longer in the club and have to adhere to the Spanish restrictions. However the confusion comes whereby if, I don’t hold an nlv I can apply the Schengen rules 90/180 but holding the nlv it would ...

...seem I have to give up these freedoms of movement, and have less time outside of Spain. ( 2 months per year on average ) over 5 years. To gain the right to reside means giving up freedom of movement in the first 5 years. 

One further thought. It would seem holding a NLV gives you less rights of movement throughout Europe than does the Schengen rules, which is bizarre 

Garyandros

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:30am

Garyandros

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Posts: 61

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Location: Las Ramblas Golf

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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:30am

Garyandros wrote on Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:11am:

One further thought. It would seem holding a NLV gives you less rights of movement throughout Europe than does the Schengen rules, which is bizarre 

Further info. According to UK immigration if you hold a European residency visa, when you are in that country (say NLVin Spain) the time spent there under that visa doesn’t count towards the 90/180 and you can move around other countries within the Schengen rules. The restrictions on movement as discussed earlier seem to apply to expats wanting to spend time back in the UK, which I suppose does make sense

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