Community AGM - Page 2

I have just been checking the SHPL laws. The minutes are signed on every page by the President and the Administrator present at the meeting. The Minutes go in the minute book.The minute book ( Libro de actas) records details of the meeting and the voting of the AGM or EGM is an official legal document and can be used in Spanish Court proceeding.

It must be stamped as authentic by the Notary or a Judge. The book establishes the right of the Community President to bring a lawsuit against any Communuity member who has not paid their fees or anything else that the members have voted on to take another member to court. All votes either way must be recorded including their names. This is essential, as the Minute book as a legal document is evidence in court, with the decisions that have be made by the Community, are a serious matter. If its not authenticated I doubt that Court proceeding would be successful, so a waste of time and money spent on lawyers.

The law states you must be notified at least 8 days in advance for the meeting date, time and place. The President presides over the meeting, and the decisions and the votes, on the agenda items are recorded.

So any Administrator not having the book signed by a Notary or Judge is not doing what they should be or acting as the law requires. I've read many posts about some Administrators on here and some don't appear to be doing a very good job. Some to the point of running Community business, which is not their job, that is the Presidents role and why it is essential to get both good Presidents and Administrators.

I am a bit confused as Marcliff above is saying only changes in the Statuates need to be registered by notary and you say the minutes do too. I can see your point regarding court proceedings and would think they would  need to be registered as a legal document for Administrators to take people to court for fees not paid ect. However, what if the Administrator is not doing this. Does that mean no one could be taken to court as it would not stand up with no legal document ie registered minutes.  I wonder about this because most years it is voted that fee debtors can be taken to court but there is never any report that this has actually happened. 

I said I think only the statutes are notarised plus any changes to the statutes. To be honest, considering the number of communities in Spain and the number of meetings to actually have every one of the minutes of a bog standard meeting would seem rather a lot of work to be done. Still, the Spanish do like their bureaucracy although I still reckon that every one that doesn't change anything in the community being notarised must mean loads and loads of full time workers being employed on this.

No wonder we can't get appointments for NIE or TIE etc. 

Just as an aside, looking at the number of communities in just our middle sized town and there must be at least 500 different communities and rising all the time. There are 25 communities in just my street. Then add up all those in the villages, towns and cities and a fair few are looking at jobs for life. 

The Statutes don't really ever change. The reason why the minutes have to be recorded is because if a Community wants to take a debtor or anyone to court, all the debts/ details must be recorded and signed off each year. Which proves the debt/ evidence has accured for each year the Community are claiming for.

We are going through this process currently and the lawyers acting for us, wanted every set of signed off notarised minutes, clarifying the debt each year. Don't forget that the minutes from this year although signed by me (as I am the President) and our Adminstrators, still have to be agreed at the next AGM by the owners. The first item on the agenda, will be the reading and voting to approve the minutes of the previous meeting. If you don't agree with the minutes, you can ask for clarification or vote against them and your vote will be registered in the book and can serve as evidence in court if you wish to make a claim. This is why they have to be recorded by an official. If things are not as they should be, the Court can reject the Communities claim. Buy a copy of "You an the law in Spain" it will tell you all you need to know.

I already have copy of the book.  Thanks. I see what you are saying. Can also see why no mention of going to court re bad debts.  Also there are no statutes. The book says this is possible but l can't  figure out how it works. No statutes - so no legal bearing on what is allowed. 

Hi George: Do you mean your Community doesn't have any Statutes?

In 1999 there was a change in the law that urbanisations can be governed by Horizontal law even if they have never registered any Statutes or Constituted themselves legally as a Community. If they met Article 396 of the civil code, which means that the Community shares some common elements, pools, gardens, private roads, etc, they can obtain full force of the law in compelling the payment of debts and enforcing their rules.

Ask you Administrator for a copy of the Statutes for your Community. When someone buys on a Community they a legally bound by the Statutes. They cannot refuse to join a Community if it legally exists, so as to try not to pay Community fees.

A properly constituted Community is registed on the Property register as it will own common elements, pool, gardens etc. It will have a number associated to it. The CIF number is provided to service providers: electricity, water, and trades people, etc.

Have asked for statuates - told there are none.  It meets 396 requirements you mentioned.  So they obtain full cover of the law for debts and enforcing their rules, but what about community owners?  There seems to be no cover for them. If no statuates community can vote in what it likes with no rules having to have full votes (which they would do if there were statuates they were amending).  The HBL is not sufficent to cover this kind of thing.  It says Minutes must be signed and registered within 10 days of AGM then sent to community owners.  It doesn't say where registered (and many say putting it in  the minutes book is registering).  It doesn't say when it has to be sent to the community owners just as long as it is sent.  Most on here say they receive theirs in 2 weeks.  Others months.  If it is months - no one can even remember what was said even if they were there.  What about having right to challenge the minutes - only allowed 3 months from date of AGM according to HBL but if you don't receive them until months after you have little time to do that.  The law should state a time limit to send out minutes.  It does not cover rights of owners.  Or am I wrong?

If your Community doesn't have statutes it is still legal as its comes under the 396. It is then down to the Community on their rules they choose.

The Community can decide to put into place the rules in a Constitution/Internal rules and all owners must abide by them. I wish owners would realise the importance of attending their AGM. Its no good complaining if they don't attend or give their proxy vote to another owner with the same opinion.

We have Statutes and a Constitution with the Internal rules and Pool rules. The statutes take presidence over certain rules stating a 100% vote or a Majority vote. If the Community votes by a majority, that can happen, say for example they want to install solar panels to power the electricity for Community assets. Then that can go ahead, (as long as the Community can afford it) if the vote is against, it cannot. Article 14 states The AGM or EGM is the supreme authority of the Community. Its decisions, by unanimous, when necessary or majority vote are binding by all members of the Community.

I would speak with your President as it shouldn't take 3 months to send out the Minutes, that is not accptable. Ours are sent out by email about 2 weeks later. You also have the right to contact or meet with the Administrator if you are unhappy.  You are paying your fees and all members should not be prevented from doing so.

Of course unless there a few members who are similary unhappy, it is difficult and costly to take the President and or the Admistrator to court. None the less you do have rights and the problems you sight should be bought up and discussed under Any Other Business at the AGM, which would require you and others to attend. You have the right as a Member to speak.

Thank you for all of the replies, we now have a clearer picture of what should be happening. I wish we could always attend the AGM but being uk based and still working it’s not always possible. I think a few other owners in our community are becoming dissatisfied with how the administration is working so we may now get some changes made. Maybe!