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Squatters - Page 7

Kimmy11

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:03am

Kimmy11

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Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:03am

Lukas wrote on Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:56pm:

Kimmy11, I assume you speak spanish and made the call to 112 in spanish?

I do, but if you don't speak Spanish, just ask for an English speaker.  

(I bet when I say, "Hay tres hombres en el jardín de mis vecinos.  Creo que van a robar la casa!", anyone who doesn't speak Spanish could accurately guess which word means "to rob" 😉)

Kind regards,

Kim

Karen204

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:14am

Karen204

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Posts: 34

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Location: Torrevieja

Joined: 12 Apr 2021

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:14am

Lukas wrote on Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:56pm:

Kimmy11, I assume you speak spanish and made the call to 112 in spanish?

I am pleased to hear that the police are helping some property owners when illegals break into their homes.   Sadly, in my situation, despite both neighbours and my key holder notifying the police of the break in, they police the squatter's word over there's.  The squatter claimed he had been in the house for several weeks.  This was not the case.   

Keith001

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:03am

Keith001

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Posts: 131

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Location: Calp / Calpe

Joined: 7 Oct 2020

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:03am

Karen204 wrote on Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:14am:

I am pleased to hear that the police are helping some property owners when illegals break into their homes.   Sadly, in my situation, despite both neighbours and my key holder notifying the police of the break in, they police the squatter's word over there's.  The squatter claimed ...

...he had been in the house for several weeks.  This was not the case.   

Did he register himself at the Town Hall as an occupant of your property? Apparently, when that happens you have to go through the courts to evict them .

When I spoke to the Calpe Town Hall , they  informed me if a person provides a copy of a paid utility bill , that is enough proof for them to register themselves an occupant of your property. Then it leaves you little choice but to go through the court system to evict them.

Trying to request that information from the Town Hall is like squeezing blood out of a stone.  If you don't have a digital certificate you have to make a personal appointment with them providing all the relevant documentation of proof of ownership . Even with all that information they will only give you the number of people who have registered , no names , dates , zilch.

It seems that the Town Hall are doing their best to make it easy for potential squatters to register while using data confidentiality laws to prevent property owners from seeing that information.

For example , after our tenant eviction in Jan 21 , I knew he would immediately break back in so I forewarned the Town Hall (even writing to the Mayor of Calpe) not to register this ex-tenant as an occupant. They said that was not possible according to their rules and regulations.

I also sent 4 emails to the Calpe police forewarning them that our ex-tenant would try and break back in but they didn't even bother to acknowledge receipt . 

Now it seems that our ex-tenant has broken back in  but we are hoping he will be charged with 'usurpation' (theft).

The laws of Spain are just so utterly biased towards squatting criminality that it seems like we are fighting a whole corrupt establishment from Spanish Govt & MPS, Judicial system, Town Halls and Police.

Keith001

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:16am

Keith001

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Location: Calp / Calpe

Joined: 7 Oct 2020

Keith001

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:51am

Keith001

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Posts: 131

121 helpful points

Location: Calp / Calpe

Joined: 7 Oct 2020

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:51am

Now this is an interesting article and wondering whether one can prosecute squatters for 'Trespass'.  I think they've made mistakes in the article saying Trespass (ie. breaking and entering) is a less serious crime when they meant 'more'. 

Occupation. Differences between usurpation and trespassing. (forcamabogados.com)

It says:

Differences between the crime of usurpation and the crime of breaking and entering.

Usurpation is a minor offense regulated in article 245 of the Penal Code and punishable by a fine of three to six months, while trespassing is a less serious crime regulated in article 202 of the Penal Code and punishable by penalty. from prison.

In the crime of usurpation there is no possibility of instituting a precautionary measure of eviction as it is a minor crime and in the crime of trespassing if there is the possibility of establishing a precautionary measure when it is verified by the Court that the occupied dwelling It is considered a dwelling and that it is not abandoned.
When it comes to the occupation of an abandoned home, which does not constitute a dwelling, the state security forces and bodies, unless they appear at the time the crime is being committed, cannot proceed to evict the property until facts are not checked.On the other hand, when it is a matter of dwelling, regardless of the time that the occupants are in the house, they can proceed to eviction, as it is a flagrant crime.
----------------------------

What is the crime of breaking and entering?

As for the crime of trespassing, this is regulated in article 202 of the Penal Code. As provided, article 18.2 of the Spanish Constitution “the domicile is inviolable. No entry or registration may be made in it without the consent of the owner or judicial resolution, except in the case of flagrante delicto ”.

Article 202 in its first point establishes the following:

"The individual who, without living in it, enters another's dwelling or remains in it against the will of its inhabitant, shall be punished with imprisonment from six months to two years."

-------------------------------
Here we have a vague Spanish Law   " without living in it'  . What does that mean?So how does one identify a person as living or not living  in the property' ?   
----------------------------

Requirements of the crime of trespassing.

It must exist in a clear and conclusive way, that will. Consent cannot be obtained through deception and undermining the privacy of the home.

In this case, the resident is the legitimate owner of the property, the same happens when there are several people who reside in the residence. These people have the power to authorize or deny entry to a third party, since in case of conflict the prohibitive will prevails.

In cases where there is an illegal occupation of the dwelling, we would be facing a crime of trespassing and, consequently, the bodies and security forces of the State, can evict the "squatters", without the necessary judicial authorization.

Therefore, they can practice an eviction immediately, as long as it is proven that the house was not abandoned, and in which the owners reside.

In the crime of trespassing, there is no deadline for the effective practice of eviction by the police, since the time that the squatters have been in the house is not affected. We must be clear that what is really binding for the purposes of this crime is the nature of the property, since it is considered a residence.


Here is where the law gets cloudy and subjective:
So if the property is deemed a dwelling and is proved to not be abandoned, then the crime of Trespass can be used .  The question is how do they define 'dwelling'  and 'abandoned' ?
"Therefore, the dwelling is understood as that place and that physical space where people develop their private lives."  What the hell does that mean?
They also say "in which the owners reside"  - so there's a nice little loophole in the law to prevent owners using the police to quickly evict the squatters.  If its a holiday home are the owners deemed to be residing in the property when it remains empty for most of the year?Is a holiday home where it remains empty for most of the year defined as a dwelling?
If a property owner continues to pay the IBI and waste SUMA bills and other utility bills , isn't that enough proof that the property is not abandoned?Again , we have vague ill-defined Spanish laws open to different interpretations.
It's quite easy for the Spanish Govt to change the laws so that it clear and concise but they won't
Example1. If a person enters your property without proof of written consent by the owner , they are deemed trespassers and can be evicted immediately by the police with the permission of the owner (or their POA's - Power Of Attorneys).2. If there is a dispute regarding the legality of people entering and living in a property without the owners consent , the occupiers of the property will be responsible for paying all utility bills until that dispute is resolved.
3.If a person produces fraudulent proof of written consent to enter your property, they can face prison for fraud and illegal trespass.

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Kimmy11

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:57am

Kimmy11

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Joined: 8 Aug 2017

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:57am

Thanks Keith.  There's a further link in that article where a Spanish lawyer recommends that victims pursue the criminal, rather than civil, route as a priority:

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/04/19/if-you-thought-you-knew-diddly-squat-about-the-rights-of-squatters-vs-homeowners-in-spain-agent-adam-neale-will-set-you-right/

Kind regards, 

Kim

Lukas

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:43am

Lukas

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Joined: 22 Jun 2021

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:43am

dinnerout wrote on Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:00pm:

You can make a 112 call in Spanish or English.

Steve

I can, sure. What I am questioning is the police's willingness to act if I speak English vs Spanish.

Kimmy11

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:03pm

Kimmy11

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Posts: 6872

12565 helpful points

Joined: 8 Aug 2017

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:03pm

Lukas wrote on Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:43am:

I can, sure. What I am questioning is the police's willingness to act if I speak English vs Spanish.

Hi Lukas,

The police know what they're responding to when the 112 call centre directs the alert to them, so if a caller had asked for an English speaking operator when they dial 112, I wouldn't expect that to be a problem.  However, whether they then have the capacity to send an officer who speaks English would vary, I imagine, on the size of the local force responding.

Kind regards,

Kim

tebo53

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:31pm

tebo53

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Keith001

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:13pm

Keith001

Helpful member

Posts: 131

121 helpful points

Location: Calp / Calpe

Joined: 7 Oct 2020

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:13pm

Beggars belief.

With regard the petition , it will need 100,000 signatures before it can be discussed in Parliament . I  think it is more effective for stories to be raised in the tabloids which will put pressure on the Spanish ministers to change these terrible laws.

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