EU not expected to be on UK Green List when international travel resumes. - Page 5

Davee57 wrote on Wed May 5, 2021 7:19pm:

Yours is the tin pot theory. In actual practice I didn’t show any PCR test to enter Spain last month travelling by car or returning over the border the other way.

Antigen tests are accepted in France and Spain, and for coming back into England. Why is it that once you are back in the UK you have to have two PCR tests facilitated and branded NHS but administered by Government approved list of middle men at extortionate prices? ...

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Kimmy11 wrote on Wed May 5, 2021 7:18pm:

Hi Lancelot,

Did you see the Death Certificate?  There's a difference between dying OF Covid, as opposed to dying WITH Covid.  I've posted this information previously, but it still seems to suit some to deny the statistics while offering no evidence other than suggesting we must be "morons"....

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Taking your suggestion that the UK's Covid-19 death rate is inflated, in part, by death certificates being written incorrectly, who do you think would benefit from this practice?  If true, the falsification would have to be on such a huge scale to explain the UK's death rate, how could it go undiscovered?
This article from the Independent, written by an NHS doctor, summarises my own thoughts on the matter:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-nhs-doctors-death-certificates-conspiracy-theories-a9513981.html

I also had a look at some of the things the doctor talks about.
For example, I think this chart from John Hopkins' University gives a good illustration of how significant the incidence of incorrect death certificates would have to be in order to skew the UK's death rate, and therefore the number and variety of clinicians who would have to collude in this 'fraud':



Then I thought I'd have a look at the UK government's own guidance.  During the emergency of a global pandemic such as Covid-19, the government adjusted its usual guidance for the completion of death certificates.  The link below includes the two sections that have been amended in response to the pandemic: section 2. Who should sign certify the death? and section 3. Referring deaths to the coroner.  You'll see that the Government guidance defines the difference between patients who die OF Covid-19, as opposed to those who die WITH Covid-19.  You can also see that there is provision for how a doctor should complete a death certificate when test results have yet to be returned and that, because of this, it's occasionally necessary to amend a death certificate once test results have been received.  This does not suggest an attempt to skew numbers, it's normal practice.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf

Finally, I had a look at similar stories running on social media, which unfortunately plays a big part in these false claims.  Thankfully, there are many bona-fide agencies who spend time investigating them - the doctor in the Independent's article also mentions this particular falsehood: 

Reuters Fact check - False Claim: UK doctors get £75 for signing death certificates, £120 if patient had Covid-1921 May 2020  

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-death-certificate-idUSKBN22X2LD

So I think it's safe to say that, while you are aware of one incident where a death certificate mentions Covid-19, you don't differentiate between OF and WITH; and, as explained above, this is normal practice.  While there may be the odd GP (remember Dr Shipling?), or family members who would want a death certificate falsified for nefarious reasons, this does not suggest wholesale malpractice by the UK's medical profession, or a deliberate attempt to inflate the UK's Covid-19 death rate.  As I said at the beginning, I can't think of a single entity that would benefit from doing so.
Kind regards, Kim

Lancelot wrote on Wed May 5, 2021 7:31pm:

I'm no conspiracy theorist, nor do I have an axe to grind politically.

If there is a real tragedy here it's those who actually died because of covid including otherwise healthy people who were denied a respirator because of competition or those denied treatment for cancer, along with other background treatable illnesses....

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I made it clear in my earlier comment that it's my belief that the UK death numbers are inflated and likely by up-to 25%.

People who died/ die within 28 days of a positive covid test are counted - in my example covid played no part in his death, given he was taken to hospital as he was in his death throes yet was mentioned on the death certificate and he will have been counted.

Who benefits - your guess is as good as mine. Though I doubt you are in the moron club given your demonstrated intellect.

swcoulthurst wrote on Wed May 5, 2021 7:29pm:

I did read on another post where someone had booked their tests back in the UK and paid for them, but the tests were not accepted because they were not on the list of authorised companies to carry out the test. Once again, why not the FREE tests that everyone is entitled to, carried out by the NH...

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...S that you/we have all paid for in our NI payments.

Doug54 wrote on Wed May 5, 2021 7:58pm:

The Way I have been reading this is that Spain are willing to put us on there Green List, if you have had your 2 jabs or a PCR test. But it is the return journey that is the Problem as the UK are taking about putting Spain on the Amber list. Which requires 2 jabs or a Covid Test and 10 Days Isola...

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...tion on return to the UK.  This may Change when Spain's Vaccine rate improves. At the moment they are talking about making the Spainish Islands only on the green list.

swcoulthurst wrote on Wed May 5, 2021 8:12pm:

That's true, but surely if you have had 2 jabs in the UK already before you left. Why do you need all the tests when you return!

swcoulthurst wrote on Wed May 5, 2021 7:29pm:

I did read on another post where someone had booked their tests back in the UK and paid for them, but the tests were not accepted because they were not on the list of authorised companies to carry out the test. Once again, why not the FREE tests that everyone is entitled to, carried out by the NH...

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...S that you/we have all paid for in our NI payments.

Davee57 wrote on Wed May 5, 2021 9:11pm:

Completely agree. The test and trace scheme that the two tests required are booked under is NHS approved and branded. What happened to universal free NHS at the point of delivery?

This is back door privatisation and another excuse for cronyism.

Lancelot wrote on Wed May 5, 2021 9:20pm:

Same reason you can't get a new pair of boobies on the NHS, it's discretionary. Travel is discretionary and if any tests are needed the cost should be paid by the individual not the tax payer.

Davee57 wrote on Wed May 5, 2021 9:35pm:

So is IVF. Gastric bands, alcohol abuse caused liver transplants, smoking caused coronary treatment, many forms if diabetes, gang knife crime, and do on! Discretionary? So using your view , we should be paying for the vaccinations or remain locked up at home?