Brexit - Page 4

Lies,damned lies and statistics.

Why is it that people twist statistics to suit their argument?

46.5 million people where ENTITLED to vote in the referendum.Of those 33.77 million (72.2%) voted.Therefore 27.8% couldn't be bothered.Not quite the 58% you quoted.

Your points are valid. But, &, you mention the word, ["DEMOCRACY"] in block capitals:

by definition: "a system of government by the whole population or all the members of a state".

You mention non- "voters", [(probably sunning themselves on the Costas or the like)], prior or during the referendum. There were many who were members, UK tax-payers who lived abroad living in EU states, (many, not in the "Costas" & had no right to vote.

I mentioned this on a previous post.

https://www.fljs.org/eu-referendum-no-legal-salve-uks-disenfranchised-non-resident-citizens

It is therefore to remember before quoting statistics to be included, those who were disenfranchised & not just those who,["that couldn't bother to vote"].

Just a point.

V

Hi Tony,

I don't know where you got your stats from, but they're incorrect:

"Registration and turnout and the result of the referendum

"A total of 46,500,001 people were registered to vote in the referendum and 33,577,342 votes were cast, representing a turnout of 72.2%. Except for the Scottish Independence Referendum in September 2014, this was the highest turnout since the 1992 UK Parliamentary general election (UKPGE).

"The outcome of the referendum was:

• 16,141,241 people (48.1% of all voters) voted to remain a member of the European Union
• 17,410,742 people (51.9% of all voters) voted to leave the European Union
• There were 25,359 rejected ballot papers.

"More than 8.5 million postal votes were issued for the referendum. This represents 18.4% of the UK electorate, the highest proportion since the introduction of postal voting on demand in Great Britain in 2001. Almost 26.3 million votes were cast in-person at polling stations.

"As in previous years, turnout was higher among postal voters than in-person voters: 87.6% compared to 69.2%. Postal votes made up 21.7% of the total votes cast, slightly more than at the 2015 UKPGE when they made up 20.5%."

I was one of those postal voters, who was otherwise sunning herself on the Costas 😉  But not before I'd paid 41 years of tax and national insurance contributions to the UK.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/report-23-june-2016-referendum-uks-membership-european-union

As for it being a "democratic" vote, nothing could be further from the truth.  Around 700,000 UK citizens, who hadn't lived in the UK for 15 years prior to the referendum, were denied their right to vote.  Even the UK government has agreed that this time limit is arbitrary and has initiated the legislation required to remove it - and that was only one group of people who were denied their democratic and human right to vote:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2017/02/09/brexit-referendum-human-rights/

I wonder how many UK citizens there are, who own holiday homes in the EU, and who voted 'Leave' in the Brexit referendum?  Why should the EU undermine one of its 4 founding pillars, Freedom of Movement, to accommodate those who want to spend more than 90 days eating their cake while they sun themselves on the Costas?

Kind regards, 

Kim

K2: Good links. 

& remember, if one´s ever loosing an argument, randomly quote a statistic,

People will believe you 80% of the time.

I am really at a loss why certain people cannot accept the results of a democratic vote, I really can’t. And I was a remain voter !

It really must be soul destroying for those individuals who cannot get over a decision that was reached by a system that we’ve adopted for generations. Sad really.

Thanks for that but the post(s) above have included the word democracy/democratic/human voter's rights & it's definition. It's not soul- destroying, but as a (br)-exiter, long before brexit was even thought about, I was one of those (living in EU) disfranchised in UK V

Hi BeniSnowbird,

Even as someone who voted remain, it's not the result that I'm taking issue with, rather that it wasn't democratic, given that such a significant number of people were denied their right to vote.  If these people had been allowed to vote, we may still have ended up with the same result.... or not 😉

Kind regards, 

Kim

  The 15 year limit on voting rights is not specific to the EU membership vote, it had been in place for many years prior. It was a rule implemented by a democratically elected government so I don't see how it can be called undemocratic. Many countries have similar limits, both EU and globally.

   Until Margaret Thatchers government introduced a law allowing overseas UK citizens to vote no-one living outside the UK was able to cast a vote in a UK election/referendum. The limit was increased to 20 years by 1989, again by a Conservative government, then the Labour government reduced it to 15 years in 2002, where it has remained to this day. 

  It will be changed (from I believe 2024) to allow most overseas citizens to vote,  again the Conservative party making the change, it was in their 2015 and 2018 manifesto's. They had been trying to have this changed for many years, ironically usually thwarted by the Labour and Lib Dem parties (who possibly thought those living overseas where more likely to vote Conservative). 

  Why people who have chosen to leave the UK to make their life in another country should be able to take part in UK voting I don't know, seems like having their cake and eating it to me, but that's is just my opinion. 

The facts I mention above are from this article:

https://europestreet.news/who-do-governments-represent-the-history-of-voting-rights-for-brits-abroad/

Rgds,

Aitch.

I’m sorry Kimmy11, we’ll have to agree to disagree I’m afraid, and be courteous in the act ! Like aithc1401 I believe the the referendum was full and wholly democratic and uses a system that we as a people have supported and agreed with for generations.

Unlike the Republic of Ireland the United Kingdom has the balls to stick with a referendum result. I retain my voting rights in the Republic of Ireland and I will never darken the door of a polling booth there ever again, I’ve never done so since the Lisbon treaty where the government didn’t get its way the first time  and scammed, lied and threatened the people at a second vote to get their way. That type of Liberal leftist ideology bordering on communism and gombeenism is something the UK can do well without, irrespective of whatever the voting public decide.

Easy being principled & brave whilst clutching an Irish passport which grants you the right to continue to live, work & enjoy unencumbered passage through another 27 EU member states, isn't it?

Spare us the sanctimonious lecture...