No deal update - Page 13

It's called the Good Friday Agreement.  They don't require NI in the EU but they do require soft borders. That much is sacrosanct and Britain is bound by it and cannot change it. 

The nub of the argument is that to have a soft border Northern Ireland must adhere to the rules and regulations of the EU and come under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. I think you will find that the relationship between the UK and Northern Ireland and the Good Friday agreement will be a pragmatic one when it comes to the British government's relationship with all its constituent parts especially under a conservative Prime Minister. I, personally, cannot foresee a situation where the Prime Minister would cede control of Northern Ireland to the EU. This would cause her so many problems with regard to Scottish Independence and the sovereignty of Wales and Gibraltar. It would mean that Northern Ireland, could, potentially, have a different legal system to the rest of the UK.

I grew up in an English city that was attacked by the IRA. In fact, I happened to be just a few hundred yards away from a bomb that went off shortly before Christmas 1974. I had walked past the location of the bomb a few minutes before it exploded.

I was a teenager at the time, so I can't claim that I was a deep thinker, but I recall, clearly, reflecting on 2 things.

1. I didn't understand the intricacies of the NI situation (and don't pretend to now), but I sympathised with those living with fear and anger on both sides.

2. I recognised the economics of the situation - NI suffered from under-investment while the UK as a whole bore the costs of trying to contain the situation (whether the containment efforts were right or just is not for me to say).

So I cannot understand or assign any credibility whatsoever to anybody who advocates a policy which undermines the GFA.

Those heartless enough to ignore point 1 above will surely understand point 2. 

Well said.

I second that!

It is clear that No Deal is what many want in rigid deference to the referendum. To do that will mean abandoning the Good Friday Agreement because a logical consequene is the installation of border controls. So to respect one thing requires the violation of another. The lunacy continues!

Ray I agree with you on many of the points you raise. However I must point out that it is far more complicated than Northern Ireland just having a different customs arrangement. It would go much much further than that. They would have to come under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice and the European parliament which would potentially create a different set of laws for N.I. than the rest of the United Kingdom. This would in effect annex N.I. from the United Kingdom. This situation would continue until a trade agreement between the UK and the EU is thrashed out. Now we get to the sticking point for Parliament. It will be a legally binding agreement and there is NO TIME LIMIT on how long negotiations for a trade agreement can take and no way that the UK, including N.I. can withdraw from the process. If my reading of the situation is correct then the only way that the GFA on the border could operate would be that either the UK stays in the EU or Eire leaves it. The third option is that the EU comes to an agreement upon a soft border without N.I. having to adhere to the directives of the EU or its laws, a solution which the EU has already rejected.

Perhaps it is worth while devoting ten minutes to reading this excellent overview of the history of the Irish problem right from the start:

https://www.history.co.uk/history-of-the-northern-ireland-conflict

It may help one to see everything more clearly.

England hardly has a proud history when it comes to Ireland.  Maintaining peace in Ireland requires an honoring of the Good Friday Agreement.  Why must Brexiters sacrifice this peace for a break from Europe? Many in NI don't want to be different from the rest of UK but the price will be a heavy one. How sad humanity has not learned the art of mutual respect, compromise and conciliation! I cannot see why the protestant / English elements in NI are so opposed to being part of a united Ireland especially in the more elightened(?) age.

Ancient Printer your take on the situation in N.I. is a sensible one which most right thinking people would applaud. What is apparent is that the people of Ireland are, in terms of religion, divided. Similar situations exist throughout the world. I'm thinking of Iraq, where Sunni and Shia Muslims cannot agree. Or Turkey where the Kurds are oppressed. Or India and Pakistan. These tensions are secular, this does not seem to be the case in Ireland. It would, I feel, be within the realms of possibility for the EU to come to a political solution which would allow the UK to leave and also to have an open border with N.I. without requiring them to submit to E.U. laws and controls. If the EU was truly interested in allowing the Irish population to mingle freely without hindrance then it should not be beyond the wit of this austere organisation to bring this about.

Thank you! My simple understanding is that, when two states have different levels of taxes, border controls are inevitable. I've been here 33 years - half my life - I remember years ago taking day trips to Calais by bus (ultra cheap fare) and loading up on cheap booze and fags (I gave up 30 years ago!). Thus NI in the UK and Eire in the EU just doesn't work without a border. Those fools who designed the referendum never thought of that! But then the designers were wealthy enough not to even worry about differentials in drink prices!

T.May says "I'm right and you¡re all wrong". So we are back with the irresistable object meeting a irresistable force. I wonder if Mogg can answer that one?