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Are savings in UK taxable in Spain?

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:49pm
17 replies2 members subscribed
michael207

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Joined: 16 Mar 2023

Hi, trying to work out my finances to see if a move to Spain is ‘doable’. I will have a small Civil Service pension (around 12k), so my tax free allowance in the UK should mean no tax to pay. (am aware that it would be exempt from Spanish tax anyway). That’s obviously not enough to live on in Spain so what I had intended to do was to use my savings to supplement the pension. Having done my sums, one thing I hadn’t factored in/thought about was whether the Spanish tax man would seek to tax those savings? I understand that all worldwide ‘income’ has to be declared but savings are not income, correct? Tax has already been paid on that money in UK, before being deposited. Surely my savings are ‘safe’ & not liable for any tax in Spain? If they are liable , this could have a major impact on my decision whether to move or stay put! 

Thanks very much, Mic

John123456

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:57pm

John123456

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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:57pm

You are right in what you say in that worldwide income must be declared in Spain. It won't necessarily by your savings that is taxed but any interest.received from that savings may be. Although any tax paid in the UK will be credited against tax due in Spain. The tax system in Spain is not as generous as the UK therefore it is important to see professional advice.  This link will provide you with further information:

https://www.expertsforexpats.com/country/spain/tax/taxes-in-spain/

marcliff

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:14pm

marcliff

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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:14pm

If you're moving permanently, you need to tell the UK tax office that by completing the Form Spain-Individual. That will tell HMRC not to charge you tax on private pensions or interest etc. You are right in that your civil service pension will only be liable for tax in UK and your tax free allowance is applicable there so you won't pay any if under the limit.

You must, though, declare the civil service pension and they will take that into account when assessing your tax free allowance and level of tax you pay. 

Savings are not taxed nor are any other assets you hold. It is only the income you receive from those assets, such as rent or interest, that is taxed. 

You cannot complete the Form Spain - Individual until you have completed your first tax return in Spain and paid any due as you can then be issued with a certificate of fiscal residence in Spain which is required by HMRC to stop taxing things in UK. This may mean being taxed twice, both in UK and Spain, until you complete this form but any tax paid in UK during the time you moved until they get the form will be refunded by HMRC.  The initial income tax return you make will also be applicable to the amount you pay for prescriptions. Currently free for pensioners earning under 18,000 (obviously not for those on an NLV as that does not meet the income requirements) or 10% of the cost if earning over 18,000 euro a year. There is also a maximum monthly charge of around 8 euro no matter how much the medication costs. 

At the moment, you have to declare assets in a foreign country annually if you have, for example, savings accounts over 50,000 euro, property over 50,000 euro etc. These assets, as said, are not taxed, just any income you get from them. You no longer pay tax on your interest in UK. If you rent a property in UK you pay tax in UK then declare it in Spain but any taxes taken in UK are taken into account in Spain.

The last bit about declaring assets etc is done on a form 720 even though the EU courts declared them illegal. Spain just dropped the exorbitant fines they were levying for not declaring something or declaring it late. Now they just fine you at a much lower level. 

Swimmer57

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:16pm

Swimmer57

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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:16pm

Won't you have to declare your savings to apply for a non lucrative visa? 

George55

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:21pm

George55

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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:21pm

It sounds to me as though you are confusing two different elements of the tax system ([i] wealth tax and [ii] tax on income from savings).

Firstly though if you are looking at using savings interest to bolster your income so as to meet the requirements for an NLV - then based on a £12k annual pension and assuming you are not yet of state pension age then that is a chunky amount of savings interest you need to get to c29k Euros annual income. That would suggest to me you have well in excess of £50k in savings and therefore could look at applying for an NLV on the basis of having an amount of savings = 2 * 29k Euros = 58k Euros. Note - I'm not sure if anyone on here has applied using that basis but it certainly has been talked about and occasionally referenced as a means to achieve it.

Savings income is taxed differently in Spain but the principle John references is correct - due to double tax treaties, if you pay tax on the income in the UK you would get allowances for that tax paid in determining the amount of tax you then need to pay in Spain. 

The wealth tax is a tax on wealth (so the savings themselves in your example) but there are substantial reliefs and allowances - ISTR Andalusia joined Madrid in applying 100% relief - so nothing would be due. 

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marcliff

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:24pm

marcliff

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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:24pm

George55 wrote on Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:21pm:

It sounds to me as though you are confusing two different elements of the tax system ([i] wealth tax and [ii] tax on income from savings).

Firstly though if you are looking at using savings interest to bolster your income so as to meet the requirements for an NLV - then based on a £12k annual pension and assuming you are not yet of state pension age then that is a chunky amount of savings interest you need to get to c29k Euros annu...

...al income. That would suggest to me you have well in excess of £50k in savings and therefore could look at applying for an NLV on the basis of having an amount of savings = 2 * 29k Euros = 58k Euros. Note - I'm not sure if anyone on here has applied using that basis but it certainly has been talked about and occasionally referenced as a means to achieve it.

Savings income is taxed differently in Spain but the principle John references is correct - due to double tax treaties, if you pay tax on the income in the UK you would get allowances for that tax paid in determining the amount of tax you then need to pay in Spain. 

The wealth tax is a tax on wealth (so the savings themselves in your example) but there are substantial reliefs and allowances - ISTR Andalusia joined Madrid in applying 100% relief - so nothing would be due. 

Valencia changed wealth tax last year. Whilst some regions stopped it altogether, Valencia didn't but only made it payable with assets of over 3 million euro. Worldwide assets if a resident but just assets held in Spain for non residents.

They said that would just be for the one year and they would reassess it but I haven't seen anything about them changing it. Even under the old system you had to have over a million euro for them to charge it due to the high level of exemptions

marcliff

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:25pm

marcliff

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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:25pm

Swimmer57 wrote on Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:16pm:

Won't you have to declare your savings to apply for a non lucrative visa? 

You still have to declare your assets on an annual basis. And, yes, savings are declared on your NLV application. A few on here have said they have done it that way. You also have to show you have same income after the first and 3rd years.

George55

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:38pm

George55

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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:38pm

It's going off on a tangent to the OPs question, but as the majority of people who frequent this forum will have been based in the UK, it's important to note that the wealth tax would capture a pension pot in the majority of cases as they're not recognised post Brexit and unlikely to be a QROPs.

Edit: by capture, I mean that they would need to be included in any wealth tax consideration of overall asset value of an individual - I didn't mean that they are captured by wealth tax irrespective of the value of the pension pot. 

michael207

Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:03am

michael207

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Posts: 34

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Location: Gandia

Joined: 16 Mar 2023

Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:03am

Swimmer57 wrote on Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:16pm:

Won't you have to declare your savings to apply for a non lucrative visa? 

Hi, I hold an Irish ppt so no visa required. I was just concerned that if I transferred circa 10k every year from a savings a/c in the UK, it might have been liable, but,I think I’m ok. We’re not talking big sums here -people have been referencing wealth tax (I wish!), the interest on my balance was peanuts & it’s paid net (just a few pounds). I don’t have any other income. The hope is that I could do that for the next 6 years (the capital will have dried up then), however, I would then turn 67 & have an additional income in the state pension. That’s my thinking anyway….the whole thing seems really daunting!


Regards,Michael 

John123456

Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:29am

John123456

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Posts: 1464

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Joined: 27 Feb 2021

Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:29am

michael207 wrote on Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:03am:

Hi, I hold an Irish ppt so no visa required. I was just concerned that if I transferred circa 10k every year from a savings a/c in the UK, it might have been liable, but,I think I’m ok. We’re not talking big sums here -people have been referencing wealth tax (I wish!), the interest on my bala...

...nce was peanuts & it’s paid net (just a few pounds). I don’t have any other income. The hope is that I could do that for the next 6 years (the capital will have dried up then), however, I would then turn 67 & have an additional income in the state pension. That’s my thinking anyway….the whole thing seems really daunting!


Regards,Michael 

In the circumstances you describe there isn't an issue with you transferring 10k per year. My only advice is to ensure it is transfered via a bank transfer or money transfer company such as Wise rather that paying in by cash. When I first arrived here I had 20k in cash with me to cover expenses while settling in. After I opened a Spanish bank account I lodged some of that cash via the ATM after a couple of days I couldn't pay in stores by my debit card or withdraw cash via an ATM. The moral of the story is my bank account was frozen under money laundering criteria. I eventually was able to get it corrected but conversations with the bank were challenging to say the least.

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