has covid entry rules been changed today - Page 2

Hi Gordon,

Notwithstanding that your statement, "vaccination has no effect on the likelihood of catching or passing on Covid" is inaccurate, Spain is a Sovereign state with the right to determine its Covid regulations as it sees fit.  For example, although the requirement to wear masks has generally been lifted, they are still required in enclosed modes of public transport, such as buses and trains, and also in settings where people may be more susceptible to infection, such as medical surgeries, hospitals and care homes.  Like the UK, the Spanish health system continues to recover from the severe pressure caused by caring for Covid-related illness, alongside the usual demands on it.  If Spain chooses to continue excluding those who have not been vaccinated, that is their prerogative, as it is the right for those who choose not to be vaccinated.

Kind regards,

Kim

Hi Ann,

Absolutely, I feel very sorry for those who, for medical reasons, are unable to have a vaccine.  A GP friend of mine told me, "There are very, very, VERY few medical reasons for not being able to have the vaccine", so that really is tough for people in that position.  My Dad´s wife, who has lowered auto-immunity because she´s receiving chemotherapy for cancer treatment, has now had a 4th vaccination.  They want to travel to Italy but, ironically, can´t get travel insurance.

Kind regards,

Kim

You are obviously very well informed Kimmy, so could you provide a link to some recent data which shows that my statement was inaccurate?

The main pressure on the UK NHS currently is due to the effects of the prolonged lockdowns and should not be described as 'Covid-related' - they are related to action taken by the government and were entirely predictable yet ignored for far too long. Not least of the current NHS problems are a severe shortage of staff as a result of many of them leaving the service following the threatened mandatory vaccination, which was only dropped at the last minute when doctors started speaking out against it.  And many foreign staff of course, returned to their home country because of travel restrictions.

If you think it is OK for Spain to continue to bar entry on the grounds of vaccination status, when there is clearly no medical reason for doing so, do you think it would be OK for them to bar entry to any other group of people that they choose, based on, say, the colour of their skin, or their religion, or their nationality?  What is happening now is vaccine apartheid - there is no other way to describe it.  

Hi Gordon,

Here are some clinical studies that demonstrate the inaccuracy of your statement, "vaccination has no effect on the likelihood of catching or passing on Covid":

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1112

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html

While the NHS had been suffering from significant under-funding and its consequent effects prior to the pandemic, this analysis shows that backlogs were significantly exacerbated by Covid-19, having increased from a waiting list of 4.28m at the start of the pandemic in March 2020 to the most current data in February 2022 of 6.18m:

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/nhs-delivery-and-workforce/pressures/nhs-backlog-data-analysis

As I said, Spain is a Sovereign state and has the right to make its own laws, within internationally agreed conventions.  To suggest that I would therefore agree that any other group of people be barred from entry based on "the colour of their skin, or their religion" is, frankly, a ridiculous and insulting conclusion.  There exists a body of international laws which protect human rights in that regard.  In fact, the UK is asserting its own position as a sovereign state with its proposal to ship asylum seekers to Rwanda, and while the proposal is repugnant to many, including me, it remains to be seen whether it will be successfully challenged under international law.  

As for "nationality", different entry rules have legally existed in that respect for many years, e.g. the difference between being an EU citizen versus a Third Country National when entering and staying in the Schengen travel area.  

Kind regards,

Kim

With regard to the above posts:

IE: GordonH605 & KimmyII

I think that involving political/scientific decisions (re: movement & transmission of the virus) is in the hands of the respective states/ WHO, (countries etc). & so we abide until the ongoing changes are applied.

As we have seen with, eg: mask-wearing, vaccinations, preventative measures (which have been tried & tested, amended &  sometimes discarded).

Regarding Vaccine effectiveness studies which some show  that ["the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people."] 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext

In the end ( & referring to the above posts) at the moment, nothing is conclusive.

Until then, we "go with the flow", & abide by those that make the ever-changing rules & regulations. (research & decide).

V

I agree with Kimmy above.   In my opinion it is insulting of Gordon H605 to bring human rights into a lame excuse not to have a vaccination.   

Without vaccinations thousands of children would die in agony from entirely preventable diseases like measles.

Estimates of 6 - 7 million people worldwide have died from Covid 19.    

USA today quote:

‘A terrible price’: As US mourns 1 million COVID-19 deaths, preventable losses among unvaccinated a major regret...

But not to the unvaccinated themselves?

Maria

["to bring human rights into a lame excuse not to have a vaccination."]   

The World Health Organization (WHO) warns against mandatory vaccinations unless all other options have been exhausted.

Dr Hans Kluge, the Europe Director of WHO : vaccinations should not be made mandatory “if you haven’t reached out first to the communities.”

“Mandates around vaccination are an absolute last resort and only applicable when all other feasible options to improve vaccination uptake have been exhausted.”

V

Mask wearing has not been fully stopped in Spain.   You still have to wear a mask on public transport, when entering hospitals, etc., and even outside when in a crowded area.

Can you confirm link please re: ["even outside when in a crowded area."].

see:

https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/gobierno/councilministers/Paginas/2022/20220419_council.aspx

V

Hi Villas,

Unless I've missed it, I haven't seen anyone on this thread suggest that vaccinations should be mandatory?  But it is odd that some people assert their right to choose not to be vaccinated, while complaining that Spain is making its own choices.

Kind regards, 

Kim