The unintended consequences of Brexit ? - Page 72

17.2 million voted for brexit , I think it's going okay , we have 6 thousand trucks in Europe  , but we employed a department to deal with the paperwork and issues that cropped up , our trucks are flat out working , we can't get enough drivers , but that's a whole new issue, like wise I wanted to retire early  , but Brexit for now has stopped it , things will get sorted or the brits will sell up and invest else were . Spose we need the eu to fail , or Spanish government to sit down and sort out the problems with boris .

Hi Mike

Yes, you and I share an interest in an old boat, and we're not even sure if we are legally permitted to drive it any more !

When I made this original post (soon to be 2 years ago), I could never have imagined how much trouble it would stir up. I really was asking a simple question at the time (a relative was preparing to buy a home here, and had asked for my thoughts), but the thread grew legs and turned a bit nasty at some points.

The boat licences thing was unexpected, as was the military zone, but most of the other issues facing Brits were visible 2 or 3 years ago ... 90/180, high entry hurdles (the NLV visa requirements), driving licences, etc. EHIC wasn't lost (it is now GHIC), as it seemed it might be, which is of consolation to holidaymakers and holiday home owners. I have to confess that I'm unclear on whether or not UK citizens wishing to retire here will benefit from S1 healthcare in future. If this turns out to be yes, that will be the avoidance of an enormous loss. The Christmas Eve agreement was rushed, and several points are unclear to me.

I was/am a Remainer. I went on a London march, and made other contributions. But the referendum is a long way behind us now. The General Election came down to Brexit-pushing Conservatives versus "we're not really sure" Labour. The electorate made a clear choice, giving the current Cabinet free rein. I suspect that not all Conservative MPs were on the same page, but to have spoken-out would only have put them in the deselection zone. 

Putting the arguments aside, and elevating the debate to the macro-level, I still can't see that alienating our closest trading partner (20 miles away) makes any economic sense when our alternatives are thousands of miles away. Transport miles cost money, so that just makes no sense. This fishing thing was always a con - a PR exercise in talking tough, that is just problematic. All UK-registered fishing boats have GPS trackers, and there is a website that tells you where they all are at any point in time. I have zero fishing industry knowledge, but even I could see that there were as many UK boats fishing in EU waters as in UK waters.

It may be some time (maybe 2-3 years) before the real trading impacts are felt. Covid is obscuring facts at the moment. The anti-Brexit brigade say UK-EU trade is down 68%, and Gove says it isn't, then the ONS rebukes Gove for using unofficial/incomplete stats. So ... we just don't know. I haven't seen stats for trading with (say) USA or Japan. If these stats are showing (say) a 50% reduction because the UK isn't selling much and Japan/USA isn't buying much because of Covid, then in simple terms that would cut the Brexit trade gap to just 18%. But we're not seeing intelligent stats like those. Anyway, even a 5% drop is 5% too much. 

And "getting out from under EU Regulations" won't look so appetising when it turns into reduced statutory workplace protections, food safety standards, etc..

In the short term, the NI issue is a worry; and that is no surprise. That problem is intractable, and may well end up with a united Ireland (with so much hardship and ill-will along the way).

The alt-right is working hard to discredit Sturgeon, to try to head off a second IndyRef.

Returning to your original point about Brits being disadvantaged .... I have sympathy for those who aspired to retire here, but cannot now afford it, and this applies doubly to those who have already invested in holiday homes and now face changed circumstances. In addition, I have sympathy for those who were doing their best to get legal and compliant last year, and who have been stymied/face lots of stress due to Covid-related delays. 

But that is where my supply of sympathy runs out. There is a 3rd group who have been living under the radar in Spain for ages, had years to get legal, and simply didn't do it. Perhaps they were in denial.

As I said above, most of the issues facing Brits were well understood years before 31/12/20, but they were ignored, or characterised as a tiny part of project fear, or the UK Gov't somehow forgot to mention them. I continue to be amazed at how the pro-Brexit/anti-Brexit interest groups distort facts. The latest to catch my eye (a pro-B newspaper) ... shock-horror, those nasty Spaniards are making it difficult for Brit holiday home owners ... the UK Gov't have known about it all along, and don't give a ****      If I knew 2-3 years ago, then the UK Gov't (or the Civil Service advisers who they ignored) certainly knew 2-3 years ago. So the aspirations of pensioners/holiday home owners are just collateral damage in the overall scheme.

I foresee years of negotiations ahead to get to a workable set of rules; but they will still end up less favourable than being in the EU. 

I am glad that your company is doing well.

But that new department your company engaged to deal with paperwork etc. costs money. That will reduce profits and/or increase your customers' costs ?

Is that not a perfect example of trading cost inefficiencies directly attributable to Brexit ?

I’m not sure where the old boat connection came in, but yes, I did have a boat for many years in Spain. I also took the time to study and obtain my “Patron de Recreo” (recreational boat licence). Originally, I enrolled in a course to learn more Spanish and the spin off was the licence..

I like the expression “living under the radar” but one should declare it for what it is – Illegal.

Being legal in Spain is not difficult, it just takes some time, and it helps if you speak Spanish.

Reading through the forums and letters that appear in the local English language press reveals a large number of moaners who don’t speak the language and think that everything in Spain should be like it is in the UK. They probably voted for Brexit too!

Spain is Spain and the UK is the UK. If you don’t like the way things are in Spain, then decide which country you want to like in and take the appropriate action. Spain is “different” in many ways both good and bad.

I was replying to Mike44 (or, at teast I thought I was !)

Other than that ... I agree with you.

No problem!

It created well paid jobs , and now instead of the east Europeans transport companies taking a lot off work from British transport companies,  we should see a lot less east European trucks on our roads , British trucks transporting goods around the uk , hopefully a lot less accidents on the m25 etc , 

I seem to remember Boris J., in his Brexit manifesto, promising that the millions of pounds being paid to the EU could be spent on the NHS.

I noted from the news this week that £2.6M was spent on a new news media centre by Boris and the nurses were offered a 1% pay rise.

How much was the MPs pay rise this year and were their expenses also raised?

Please correct me if I’m wrong with my figures but it seems that the public has been led up the garden path once again.

I know the pandemic has cost a pretty packet , in the billions , track and trace for the nhs was 27 billion,  MP'S  will always take the Micky wether they right or left wing,  until they are caught.  Boris must have expensive tastes, 200 thousand to decorate his apartment,  and I'm a tory voter , but I shake my head at times !

lol watch your head doesn’t fall off then with all that shaking you will be doing.