UK madness - Page 2

Hi,

       i've read your posts with interest and agree with just about all of what is written. Today the headline news in the UK is that the UK figures are the dark cloud against the rest of the world, though if you look at the stats they don't look that different, at the stage we are at in the coronavirus cycle, to many other countries at the same stage.

    The one point I hope you are wrong about is that we will continue to rely on China for PPE. It's not just PPE it is just about everything that is critical to our country. It does not mean that we start making everything for ourselves, but certainly absolutely essential goods should be made in the UK.  The world is putting all it's eggs in one basket by sourcing so many of their goods from China. Even if China were a democratic, open country that would be unwise. Imagine if they had been heavily affected by this virus and had to go into an extended lockdown, that would have stopped a lot of their manufacturing for weeks. That would have had a far greater impact than we are seeing with PPE supplies. 

Let's hope the western world wakes up to this risk and starts to build diversity into where goods are sourced. 

Aitch.

Hi, I agree with your well written description. Also thanks for explaining your left wing slanted bias. In doing that, the danger is the probability of not including the whole "picture".

With this situation being,it is, ongoing statistically powered information, be it politically, media or other opinionated view-point. Without having a definite conclusion and only hind-sight, we only have to refer to statistics and scientific or political theory. (at this in time)

Until then, it is up for the public to consider & disseminate the information (which often changes minute by minute).

For example, Sweden which you quoted: 

A group of 22 doctors, virologists and researchers criticised the Public Health Agency in an op-ed published by Dagens Nyheter newspaper on Tuesday this week..

They accused the government of having failed to draw up a proper strategy, pointing out that the mortality rate in Sweden is now around double that of most of its Nordic neighbours. 

https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/16/sweden-under-fire-for-covid-19-containment-as-deaths-hit-record-high

I read & enjoyed your report with interest.

Villas

The UK has been given a very large loophole to avoid the lockdown and the idiots will try everything they can to exploit it bringing with it the risk of spreading the virus, the lockdown should be the same as Spain.

There are people in the UK that are doing longer rides/runs than they have ever done totally against the allowance rules, people going for picnics and sunbathing exploiting the allowances for exercise. Take away this allowance and the loophole disappears.

I look forward to when I can get back out and start my riding again but that will not be until we are allowed to do so.

All 

I think that culture is very important in all this as we know Spanish and Italian culture is very different in general from the UK with the way they greet each other and the outside life in cafes beaches etc.

Also the real figures are not known regarding deaths in care homes and at home so maybe these will distort figures as well as the average age of residents which I think in Italy and Spain is higher than the uk

Imagine if they [China} had been heavily affected by this virus and had to go into an extended lockdown, that would have stopped a lot of their manufacturing for weeks. That would have had a far greater impact than we are seeing with PPE supplies. 

But they are, they did, and we are seeing a huge impact on supply of good. Lead times on many/most goods from China have extended massively. You don't feel it in the shops yet, cus they're closed. But towards the end of the year you will. Prices will increase as demand outstrips supply.

Take away this allowance and the loophole disappears.

And the social impact of such a measure, especially on mental health will increase, substantially. Yes, a few idiots are flouting the guidelines, but they will most likely flout a total lockdown too. Spain has nearly double the number of police per capita than the UK. So, Spain is better placed to enforce a total lockdown. Put a total lockdown in place in the UK and there is no-one to enforce it. So it's meaningless. 

Regardless though, you are simply not seeing the facts in the numbers: A total lockdown seems to make little to no difference to infection rates. Again, I'm not making this up, it's there, in the numbers. 

Right, I'm off for a bike ride.

:-)

EDIT: I think that culture is very important in all this as we know Spanish and Italian culture is very different in general from the UK with the way they greet each other and the outside life in cafes beaches etc.

That's a very very valid, and good point, and not one I'd considered. I suspect it's at the core of why countries like Spain and Italy, with very touchy-feely cultures, are so hard hit.

Typical Brits would rather punch a stranger than kiss them ;-)

Meanwhile, passengers from Viral hotspot countries step from the close confines of aircraft cabins and breeze through customs at British airports with no checks whatsoever, and key workers are packed like sardines on ever fewer tube trains in London.

Whilst stopping lone people walking their dog in the middle of an isolated Yorkshire Moor is a positive step, I wonder if Britain's rather limited resourses might be better employed?

Share your frustrations but if folk seeing this as acceptable took their dogs also it is not an isolated moor any longer.

I am almost 60 a keen runner all my life, the last 5 weeks have been torture for me. I ran alone at first light and passed perhaps at most 6 people in my 30 minute route. If losing this privilege saves one person suffering or worse or lessens the work load for medical staff then I can put up as long as is neccessary.

Agreed, Peter. At least Spain’s lockdown rules are consistent and make some sense. The U.K. is behaving irresponsibly, as are some other countries. I would imagine it will be a long time before Spain allow people to come in to the country again. The ‘experts’ are not always right. Only common sense, and a heap of good luck will get us all through this.

I'd still like someone to explain why the UK has it wrong and Spain has it right? And maybe even provide some evidence to backup the claim?

At the moment all I hear is unfounded opinion.

What I've said above isn't an opinion, but what I believe the stats are saying. Happy to be proven wrong, by facts, or at least solid interpretations of the stats, not personal opinions.

Well, where to start with this?

The police have been left to pick up the mess caused by massively vague legislation. Police action has been criticised heavily in the media with various press outlets asking "Have you been stopped by the police" or harassed? Not talking about the Morning Star here but the Mail and ITV News are in there.

If there's a loophole that can be exploited elements of the British public will exploit it. It's always been that way. We have media commentators like Julia Hartley Brewer, Katie Hopkins ( pause to clean mouth out) and high profile lawyers helping people exploit the loopholes and bemoaning restrictions on liberty. To cap it all off Nigel Farage is complaining about lack of movement of people. Talk about irony overload. 

Let's look at the statistical issues. The neutral media are reporting 90% compliance. Put another way 6 million people aren't complying. That's a lot. 

The population of Spain is about 48 million and they have 264,000 police officers in various guises. They are also using the army to assist enforcement. The Spanish tend not to argue with cops unlike the UK where everyone knows their rights.

There are approximately 60 million in the UK with approximately 138,000 police. The military will not be used until the wheel comes right off for historical reasons.

The fault lies squarely with the government for hurried, crap legislation. The police have been left holding the baby and trying to cobble something together while the government have moved on to giving meaningless press conferences.

Personally I believe it should have been tougher in the UK but it is what it is and those in the frontline, not the keyboard warriors, have to deal with it, putting themselves in danger while they do so.