Moving to Spain: what happens if the UK leaves the EU? - Page 12

Thanks Kimmy11 for such an extensive and balanced response. I'll keep tabs on what is happening. As an aside I also follow on Facebook called Brexit & The Canaries. The debate is good and they keep an extensive file reference within the group information. 

Something to be thinking about.  .  .  .  .  For some time now Brexit is heading towards a ''no deal'' with the EU. Many are suggesting that this is the preferred option. If this is the result I would like to ask Jim Taylor for his highly respected opinion on the situation UK citizens living in Costa Blanca will find themselves in ? Thank you Jim.

B

Thanks for the kind words, B, but I just don't know, and all I can do is speculate.

If there isn't any deal at all, with no agreement about how British expats in the UK are to be treated, then we are obviously vulnerable.

I hope that being resident and paying tax here will enable us to continue to do so, as we're directly contributing to the Spanish economy.

I don't even know if the treatment of Brits living in the EU will be governed by central EU legislation, or by the individual member states. If the latter, that could potentially be a problem, as Spain are good at making retrospective legislation. Overturning our right of permanent residence could be a real problem.

We'll just have to wait and see, I'm afraid. Hopefully, the worst that will happen will be that we'll lose the annual increases to our state pensions.

I did recently do an oldish online test for Spanish citizenship. I passed by a decent margin, albeit I must admit some of my answers were guesses. It's something I'd consider doing in earnest should it become necessary.

That is a very accurate and honest response Jim.

This thread has been going for maybe a year or so.

Right at the beginning I pointed out there is no point in asking the original question regarding what happens, as no one knows any more than anyone else. We can make some guesses - but that is all they are and we are not in a position to judge how good the guesses are. Unfortunately, the OP misinterpreted my remarks and thought I was being offensive. It was not my intention at all.

We can apply some logic, but of course the logical, sensible and reasonable course is often the one politicians eschew.

In regard to whether it will be the EU or Spain making the decision about ex pats, I am convinced it will be the EU and will apply across all EU countries. I posted about this previously. My reasons are as follows. First, Spain is not the only country where UK citizens reside. Second, with the exit of the UK, I believe the EU will want to show its authority over all things, for obvious reasons.

I will now counter my reasoning with some alternatives. Each EU country is entitled to make its own arrangements about non-EU immigration. On that basis, postBrexit EU citizens residing in Spain would be non-EU immigrants - unless there is a special deal - but, in my view, such a deal would be EU-wide. Assuming for now, UK citizens will be classed as non-EU immigrants, Spain could make its own arrangements on that issue. The Spanish economy would be damaged by a mass Brit exit and they have enough other issues on their plate to want that. 

Also, again to counter my previous point, the EU may want, postBrexit, to appear helpful and conciliatory, rather than officious and demanding. Sensitivity to this issue, both in regard to Spain and UK citizens, may bolster the EU's image. In such a case UK citizens already resident in Spain, France and other EU countries may be given a, say, five year period to become citizens, to leave, or possibly to enter into a new, as yet unknown, arrangement. I suspect there will be a deal, such as following the five years, UK citizens would then be classed as non-EU immigrants if they have not passed citizenship tests etc. In my view this would mean Brits actually having to bother to learn Spanish - or another EU language :>) The EU visa issued to Russians (up to two years as far as I know) requires the first entry to be to a stated country. Having landed, they are then free to go anywhere in the Schengen area (obviously not the UK). I suspect a special deal would involve some kind of extension of this in a similar system - for a limited period. Also, who in Spain would actually consider when the five years started? I know many Brits who have been in Spain for years and have no NIE or anything else to indicate they have been there. The ones (like me) who did all the official things, including paying local taxes to help cover the costs of street cleaning etc will be the ones on record. No good deed should go unpunished.

As I stated at the start, all guesswork. The fact that I happen to know a little about this does not make my guesses any better or worse than someone who knows nothing about it or someone who knows a lot more about it. It just fools me into thinking I may be right :>)

I suggest we should all stop guessing and wait and see. If people continue guessing then do the sensible thing and make use of your various options that you have considered possible and draw up a simple contingency table. Your guesses would then be put to what may be good use. Of course, I use the word 'may' because the UK and the EU may come to some arrangement none of us have considered and your contingency table could be put in the appropriate archive area (known as the bin).

Does everyone who is wondering now feel fully reassured?

I would just like to point out that Spain is populated by citizens from all over the world and for Spain to single out UK nationals as being suddenly unfit people to live there seems highly unlikely, whatever the EU dictates.

Why would the EU impose different rules on non-EU migrants from Britain as they do for non-EU imgrants from the rest of the world? As some sort of punishment for daring to leave their failed club?

My feeling is that as long as migrants, from wherever they come, comply with the requirements of residency in Spain then we will have little to fear.

It's certainly something that will be worrying many Brits, maybe especially the ones who opted to go a little "under the radar" in terms of Padron, NIE and Residencia. And maybe some that didn't! 

The whole thing is a bit of a mess, let's hope some progress on a deal is made soon. 

One thing I do believe is that Spain wouldn't treat UK ex pats in a harsh way, as you say the overall contribution to the economy is significant, not to mention the detrimental effect on the property market if most decided to head home because they will fail the Residence test because they can't learn the language effectively due to age. 

As I say, it's a worry, fingers crossed! 

Hmmm

If you go live in another country and go "under the radar" whether you are an EU member, EU national or not, you deserve whatever is coming to you. In my humble opinion of course.

And as for living in a new country and not learning the language....don't get me started lol

The EU does not impose rules on non-EU migrants. That is for individual countries to decide. Where did you get the notion that the EU will impose rules regarding non-EU immigrants?

@LGM

I was commenting only on reality as it stands, and how Spain may decide to proceed in the event of No Deal, not on my own position. 

I think it would also be helpful if you keep your personal opinion of the EU out of the subject matter.  

I previously posted that I had written some easy read guides on the various economic options:

http://brian1042.wixsite.com/briansblog/brian-s-blog/tag/Brexit

I wonder how may people  'worrying' have read these or looked at other sources to see what the options my be?